Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

xxp otm but i appreciate anyone who is classified within an oppressed caste finding that emphasis exasperating

Alfred sooooooo otm

speaking of which, and this likely belongs in the race thread instead, but i should prob read Wilkerson's Caste; the supporting articles strike me as noteworthy
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/17/isabel-wilkersons-world-historical-theory-of-race-and-caste

i am a quarter of the way through 'caste' right now. wilkerson continues to be amazing and brilliant. also, the 'nice white parents' nytimes podcast has been a great window onto the intersection of faux-liberal mindset and public education.

thanks for the recommend; will give it a go asap.

This book is very, very worth y'all's time:

https://nyupress.org/9781479803682/white-kids/

thanks, will look into it. are you teaching it or reading?

I read it last fall. Make your peace with the pedantic academe prose.

You wanna see white libs reeeally get livid? Ask them about Biden's long history of segregationist and racist policy proposals, and why the Democratic party leadership so eagerly chose him of all people, now in 2020 with everything going on in this country of all times, to be their nominee to oppose Donald Trump of all people in the presidential election this year. As seen in this very thread, with people falling over themselves to mansplain how his vice president running mate actually doesn't think he's racist when she (rightfully) tore into him over that same history of things such as opposing integration in school busing!

we didn't start the fire!

who's "we"

forget it, Simon, it's trevor

alfred votm

why the Democratic party leadership so eagerly chose him of all people, now in 2020 with everything going on in this country of all times

If the primary had come post-George Floyd or post (or "post")-COVID, the apparatus would have united behind someone other than Biden before Iowa and New Hampshire.

Call me a white lib but Biden won the primary in part due to significant support from A-Am voters (albeit older).

Who are these "libs?" They sound more like centrists to me.

If the primary had come post-George Floyd or post (or "post")-COVID, the apparatus would have united behind someone other than Biden before Iowa and New Hampshire.

not sure this is true tbh

I agree with Milo that had 2020 events happened earlier, Biden may not have been the nominee.

Who are these "libs?" They sound more like centrists to me.

Biden wasn't actually doing that well with Black voters until after Clyburn's endorsement and the media campaign post-South Carolina. There were polling numbers in one of the old primary threads - he was winning older Black voters but not by overwhelming numbers.

Post-Clyburn/South Carolina/drop-outs, it's pretty pointless to talk about voter demographics when he had been anointed as the nominee.

Who are these "libs?" They sound more like centrists to me.

Ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center when it affects them personally IIRC.

The machine didn't want Biden, he was just their last chance when Bernie surged - if they had taken Bernie more seriously before January (or if COVID/Floyd had hit in November), they would have picked a younger person more in line with their representational marketing. (like... Harris)

this is just so fucking weak and disappointing

I wish every reporter were like this. https://t.co/hIDFJkgDmv

— Briahna Joy Gray (@briebriejoy) August 12, 2020

advance apologies for posting it in the Joe Biden thread of all places

All white people are racists. The sooner people get this, the better.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, August 12, 2020 11:13 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is otm but i think there's something about the way we discuss being a "racist" that's not really helpful as if it's some well-defined state of being.
you see this a lot when people say racist shit and then people defend them saying "i know this person is not a racist in their heart" as if it's like...being diabetic or not diabetic...if a person is saying racist things, that's not really meaningfully distinct from being a "racist inside" from the perspective of the POC that the language is actively hurting

i think white people should just acknowledge that ingrained racism is something that happens to all of us, how couldn't it? and you need to try to examine yourself and your prejudices and work through it, just the same way, for instance, maybe you had family experiences or an upbringing that made it hard for you to communicate, or things that affect your romantic relationships negatively...

but i don't think there's any end point where you can say "okay i came through the tunnel now i'm Not A Racist"

Oh good, Neera Tanden's ghost writing for him re: socialized healthcare didn't help Italy!!!

When you define racism down to "anyone who benefits from structural racism is racist" and then further to "all white people are racists," it doesn't seem helpful.

I know it woos no new allies from the people from whom we should be recruiting, but, as a gay Latino, I've accepted that I'm a chauvinist by nature of being a gay Latino in the same way I can be condescending or talk over people -- these are phenomena of varying degrees of loathsomeness but I acknowledge I gotta work on them. I will never improve or stop being these things; human nature doesn't work like this. All I can do is stop myself when I feel them burble up to potentially damage relations with someone I love.

To say "I have chauvinistic qualities but I'm no chauvinist!" is nitpicking imo.

In other words, being male means I have tendencies that make me loathsome to more than half the world's populations. I gotta acknowledge and work on them.

Thanks for the reply. I mean, I totally understand the impulse to just say "fuck being helpful, white people suck!" I try to stay vigilant around my biases as much as possible since I'm a cishetwhiteguy, and I have DEFINITELY benefited from structural racism. I just get bummed out with the constant talk about how much white people suck. Like, let's talk about the behavior and not the person.

I also agree, it's close to the "people aren't stupid, they just do stupid things" axiom. sure would be nice and easy to just reduce it though

Thanks for the reply. I mean, I totally understand the impulse to just say "fuck being helpful, white people suck!" I try to stay vigilant around my biases as much as possible since I'm a cishetwhiteguy, and I have DEFINITELY benefited from structural racism. I just get bummed out with the constant talk about how much white people suck. Like, let's talk about the behavior and not the person.

― DJI

like to me i'd prefer the conversation not really be about either. just talking about the behavior comes perilously close to "mean people suck"-style toothless tautologies. my way of looking at it is that there are specific biases that are intrinsic to white racial identity. denying one's own white racial identity does nothing to address these biases - it serves only to entrench them deeper while simultaneously normalize them. my personal approach is to recognize and acknowledge my essentially unavoidable complicity in white power structures without turning that into a matter for individual guilt or shame. america, in particular, as a state centered around hyperindividualist norms, is extremely resistant to understanding patterns of behavior that are neither individual nor universal.

my personal approach is to recognize and acknowledge my essentially unavoidable complicity in white power structures without turning that into a matter for individual guilt or shame

otm -- it turns into another iteration of therapy.

When you define racism down to "anyone who benefits from structural racism is racist" and then further to "all white people are racists," it doesn't seem helpful.

Define "helpful" because IMO making the majority of white people understand the concept of "white supremacy" and having them buy into helping actively dismantle it would be extremely helpful

otmfm

I don't think saying "all white people are racists" is helpful in getting anyone to buy in to antiracism who isn't already bought in.

Also, "shame" is a starting point. It's part of -- or should lead to -- acceptance.

I don't think saying "all white people are racists" is helpful in getting anyone to buy in to antiracism who isn't already bought in.

― DJI

what are white people who are unable or unwilling to acknowledge their own complicity in white supremacist power structures buying into, exactly?

a bunch of bullshit, usually.

Well, I can tell you that "not all white people are racists" also isn't helpful because virtually every single white person says "oh there's an exception? that must apply to me"

Biden's policy positions over the years may well make him a racist, but it is a fact that Kamala Harris did not call him a racist. In fact, she literally said, "I do not believe you are a racist." So if the question is, why did Biden choose someone who called him a racist, the answer is she didn't.

"Why did Biden choose someone who didn't call him a racist?"

m@tt’s approach is mine as well

just now remembering why I don't source my messaging tips from ilx

sorry I meant that excerpted rushomancy approach is mine

lol@Simon

"Vote for me, you racists!"

Also, "shame" is a starting point. It's part of -- or should lead to -- acceptance.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, August 12, 2020 3:30 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Are we certain it works? Genuinely asking, sometimes I have the feeling it does the opposite.

The problem is that nothing actually works.

I mean, considering how many Twitter bios still proudly embrace "deplorable", maybe that's not far off...

pretty sure the evidence points to shame being ineffective tbh

The problem is that nothing actually works.

:(