Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

xp this is exactly what's maddening about it. Forget it coming across his desk—he's shooting it down as an idea, just as it's gaining (some) traction.

Hey dipshit—how about starting with single-payer and make your compromises from there. Next-level Obama negotiating skills already in full flower.

xxp - A Democratic Congress takes it cues from a Democratic President.

Suggesting that he'd veto it isn't the worst part of the clip; it's that he keeps saying that the pandemic has not exposed any weaknesses in the US private / employment-tied health system a) at all, and b) openly and massively lying that integrated public health systems around the world have not handled the pandemic better.

agreed

He doesn't want single payer, it wouldn't make sense for him to start there as a negotiation. He doesn't even, as Obama didn't, give a shit about his public option.

What are people without access to healthcare going to do, vote Republican? Fuck 'em, man!

Cue 2022 red wave

xxp of course not, but honestly I just thought it would be more like January b4 he stopped posing—and that at a minumum that posing would forward some actual policy conversation

He doesn't want single payer, it wouldn't make sense for him to start there as a negotiation. He doesn't even, as Obama didn't, give a shit about his public option.

― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, August 12, 2020 7:03 PM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

From what I understand, not a whole bunch of americans want single payer either.

not a whole bunch of Americans wanted a lot of things that should absolutely unequivocally be rights but somehow we managed

It's too bad our elected leaders have zero influence on public opinion, really.

elected

This seems key.

He's speaking of what will come after he's elected, yes - if you don't want that appellation for someone who was elected VP twice, to the Senate for three centuries and so on.

Milo do you think the genie is out of the bottle wrt single payer? I’m pretty certain Biden//Harris is the last ticket in Dems history to not be 100% for single payer.

Zero chance of that.

The Pelosis, Schumers, Clintons, Manchins aren't just going to go away of their own volition.

There are plenty of soulless strivers to replace them - Joe Kennedy III and Buttigieg for two prominent examples.

Biden winning will be seen as proof that the left flank is either irrelevant or properly cowed by the evil of the GOP, no need to meddle with the status quo. The political and donor class and most of the upper-middle class can ride out imperial decline in style.

If the left flank makes sure they are a key constituency, and since 2016 there seems to be some valuable progress in that regard, they won’t be seen as irrevelant. Obama//Biden in 2008 and 2012 don’t propose a 2 trillions green plan, now he does.

Better to pretend it never happened. Who's going to care?
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z)

It occurs to me that isn't this something that was argued about for 30-some posts earlier today--whether or not Kamala Harris called Joe Biden a racist in the debate moment nobody cares about?

The Joe Biden sucks thread remains too small to be relevant electorally, unfortunately.

But even the people who care here, it's not changing anyone's votes.

If the left flank makes sure they are a key constituency

What does this even mean?

As ever, once you're a guaranteed vote the Democrats have no interest in actually serving your needs or desires. Why would they? The fuck else you gonna do, vote Republican?

Republicans are terrified of their voters, Democrats disdain theirs.

Legalize Marijuana

DNC Platform
vote: 106n, 50y, 3a
% support: 31/67 (-36) 👈

Polling – Pew 11/19
Public: 67/32 (+35)
Dems: 78/20 (+58) ←

Medicare for All

DNC Platform
vote: 36y, 125n, 3a
% support: 22/76 (-54) 👈

Polling – KFF 5/20
Public: 57/40 (+17)
Dems: 78/19 (+59) ←

— austerity is theft (@wideofthepost) July 28, 2020

now THAT is an original post. Don't jerk off on this thread while posting it, though.

Politics consists of increments. The party platform is now officially more leftward than Obama-Biden's in 2008. I don't mind a little dissatisfaction if it keeps us activists het up.

Milo do you think the genie is out of the bottle wrt single payer? I’m pretty certain Biden//Harris is the last ticket in Dems history

― Van Horn Street

one can only hope

Politics consists of increments. The party platform is now officially more leftward than Obama-Biden's in 2008. I don't mind a little dissatisfaction if it keeps us activists het up.

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

"het up" is one way of describing it, i suppose

don't worry, i'll "cool down" soon enough

Incrementalism only works when there's actual incremental progress.

God grant me the serenity of someone who believes Joe Biden will have the answer to 14% unemployment on February 1.

But I'm all for threads serving as therapy.

I live in a state where a sheriff of a mid-sized city announced he would force citizens not to mask should they seek the help of his office, and it might be a lowest common denominator scenario for this Sanders/Warren voter to accept a president from whom governors take their cue, but here we are.

don't worry, i'll "cool down" soon enough

did I write "cool down" at some point?

The Joe Biden sucks thread remains too small to be relevant electorally, unfortunately.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, August 12, 2020 7:57 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

But even the people who care here, it's not changing anyone's votes.
― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z)The Joe Biden sucks thread remains too small to be relevant electorally, unfortunately.

So it's worth arguing about here, because it has meaning to the people arguing about it, but it's not worth them clarifying anything to the world at large, because everyone else is too stupid to care? These fine distinctions escape me.

I sometimes think you've taken over from Outic as The Guy Who Has Everything Figured Out.

ain't no one gonna be cooling down if you catch my meaning

Outic

Homer wept.

If the left flank makes sure they are a key constituency, and since 2016 there seems to be some valuable progress in that regard, they won’t be seen as irrevelant. Obama//Biden in 2008 and 2012 don’t propose a 2 trillions green plan, now he does.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, August 12, 2020 6:56 PM

the uniquely sad thing about the climate change issue is that for every year we continue to do jack shit, the cost and scope of realistic policies to address it goes up as the situation is more urgent and the amount of time to make the transition only becomes shorter.

so, it's cool that they (biden) at least agreed to a $2 trillion plan in 2020, but whoever runs in 2028 is going to be proposing a $10 trillion plan (probably higher), all the same

Outic at least appeared in Funkadelic threads

(that was one major point for bernie - he proposed a $16T climate plan. i really appreciated someone actually taking the issue seriously and using realistic numbers)

Yep.

I don't really understand how anyone is arguing with Milo right now. He's very otm right now.

it's worth arguing about here, because it has meaning to the people arguing about it, but it's not worth them clarifying anything to the world at large, because everyone else is too stupid to care? These fine distinctions escape me.

Where did I suggest anyone was too stupid to care? I said they don’t. We also have a thread on accelerationism. How many American voters know of or care about accelerationism? Or basically any of the other topics discussed here?

As for the argument above... I believe I called her attack on Biden ‘political theater’ - which is to say I don’t care about the argument either. Who gives a shit? Obviously she either didn’t believe the attack to start with or doesn’t care enough about it to not work with him.

If the American public starts demanding a rapprochement on the issue, then deal with it. But no one is so why make it an issue?

Whether any politician "means" anything is irrelevant: the point is to win. Harris thought she could win with these points last summer; then she proved she was unskilled enough as a pol to elongate the critique or come up with a platform on her own.

Today was convincing theater, and that's enough for millions of voters.

I don't really understand how anyone is arguing with Milo right now. He's very otm right now.

― blue light or electric light (the table is the table), Wednesday, August 12, 2020 8:32 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

WHAT THE ohh

the table calling milo otm is perfection

But what do map and Left think?

I find myself arguing on the opposite side of where I usually am, which is that political theater and appearances and a thousand other small things matter (at which point I'm usually called out for caring too much about "horse-race" trivialities). So I do understand. It just nagged at me today when she was championing Biden's commitment to civil rights--I can't unforget that memorable flare-up. And I agree with something Mad Puffin said earlier--it would be the easiest thing in the world to preemptively brush away, whether through humour or a mea culpa or whatever.

If they don't, they don't. I hope they have something credible ready when it comes up in a debate.

Or when the media gets bored six weeks from now, and they're looking for something to make an issue of.