prince

So glad they didn't fuck with "All My Dreams". Now THAT"S the maximalist Prince stuff I dig - but that's also closer to a "Parade" vibe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_aAug_PpUM

they uploaded the new years show w/ miles davis to youtube, which is great bc i was mad they didn't include it with my promo lol

They will prob do a mop up set of outtakes at some point.

I'd have preferred if they released stuff like movie star, we can funk 86, on this too, so its all here, as well as things like splash and empty room. I dont need a shep remix of strange relationship or inferior alternate takes either tbh. They should have filled it back back with unreleased songs! That said, this is an incredible undertaking. Hoping things like the original cocoa boys are on the parade SDE. Do find it odd hearing old bootlegs in pristine quality. All that 'cant believe I'm hearing this/cant believe it's not released' frisson is gone.

excuse me while I have a latepass freakout over the 1979 ICNTTPOYM

If they ever do a re release of dirty mind, surely it would belong there?

Not sure if I trust the guys on Steve hoffmann forums saying that the masters are mp3s for certain songs, Or that the speed on the live CD is slow. Unless by 'lossy' sources they mean cassette tapes. In which case, yeah, they prob did use cassettes.

It's easy to see if you open tracks in Audacity set to spectrum view - mp3s usually employ a lowpass filter at 16kHz as part of the encoding, so the spectrum cuts off abruptly aside from transients. "Visions" has nothing above 12kHz, "Can I Play With U", "Colors", "It Be's Like That", "Rebirth of the Flesh", "A Place in Heaven (Lisa vocal)" have a hard limit at 16kHz with transients, exactly like an mp3, lots of tracks have an odd line running through at 16kHz which is suggestive. The remastered album and the live discs have absolutely nothing like that, so it's not part of the mastering process for the set.

The main archive guy said in an interview when the set was announced that there's clearly some sort of big plan at work for these kinds of sets -- my money is on a radically expanded deluxe Purple Rain at some point -- but I'm content to see how it plays out. Seems like it'll be one from the Warner's years and one from the NPG era each year along with some other things like the Piano and demo sets.

Will also say that the one thing I kinda most feared in the immediate aftershock of Prince's passing -- that the absolutely unsettled nature of his estate could lead to the archive completely being scattered or worse -- seems not to have come to pass, and I'm pretty damn grateful for that. Matos has a little more about that in his GQ feature:

https://www.gq.com/story/prince-sign-o-the-times-review

All I'm asking for is a complete Time set.

Re: sources, why would the estate use mp3s when there are flac files out there? If they are using downloads that is.

Was the off-pitch live show ported over from a previous release, and did it have the same problem on the previous release?

I don't know anything about previous releases, but some musicians who know Prince's music VERY well tried playing along with some numbers and found that everything was a touch flat. (Reminds me of...KIND OF BLUE, where supposedly it was a well-known "secret" that the album was never mastered at the correct pitch until 1996, mainly because a lot of musicians liked to play along and noticed right away things weren't in tune.)

Try listening to "Purple Rain" from that show. I've heard that song countless times, and right away it sounds a touch flat. When Prince's voice comes in, it sounds off.

mp3s usually employ a lowpass filter at 16kHz as part of the encoding, so the spectrum cuts off abruptly aside from transients. "Visions" has nothing above 12kHz, "Can I Play With U", "Colors", "It Be's Like That", "Rebirth of the Flesh", "A Place in Heaven (Lisa vocal)" have a hard limit at 16kHz with transients, exactly like an mp3, lots of tracks have an odd line running through at 16kHz which is suggestive

Is this some kind of DNA certification for mp3s specifically, or the sort of thing that could also indicate those tapes were flaky and needed to be baked, as was the case with some of the material?

It's a pretty hard limit, and for most of them it's at that frequency which is part of the mp3 algorithm. "Visions" could well be a flaky tape but it would be a remarkable coincidence for the others. There's software out there which does sophisticated analysis and gives a probability of lossless vs lossy, but I don't have it.

I mean, if bits of the recording literally fell off the tape, its probably fair to call that "lossy" even if we can't blame the compression algorithm

iirc (from reading a few articles this month) this version of Rebirth Of The Flesh hasn't been circulating before, so mp3 sourcing would more likely be a fuckup by someone at AT&T in a shared dropbox, not resorting to bootlegs as first source?

Absolutely - or someone snuck a mix out and emailed it to a friend, etc. The Guardian article says the original “Wally” was mixed and dubbed onto a cassette before the multitrack was wiped - that tape never showed up so we have the remake. Lots of unlabelled tapes and takes. I hope they use an experienced archivist.

This is a good piece, though Brooks does seem like a bit of a revisionist, to an extent.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2020-09-25/prince-sign-o-the-times-ressiue-box-set

Brooks: Because of his deep historical knowledge and engagement with P-Funk and James Brown and classic R&B and funk, it meant he was legible to a hip-hop public that was listening to all the samples.

Is this really true?

going through the three discs now

if you'd told me when I downloaded 'The Work Vol. 1' that it wasn't even a third, or a fourth of the good stuff

shit is seriously saving my life right now

PRINCE 4 LIFE

(+ cheers to Matos)

(+ ATWIAD box set better be at least five discs)

Mike Howe's given several extensive interviews on this since it was announced, and he mentions in the latest one for RS that, as usual, they create a preliminary list of material worthy of release before whittling it down. He says the three CD's of vault items add up to about 2/3 of that original preliminary list. I wonder what the other 1/3 would have been, though it's possible some of it may have been too redundant or just plain too inferior to what was ultimately selected.

Excited about matos new book, which I did not know about until reading his byline at the end of that (very good) GQ piece

fuck, this entire thing

Brooks: Because of his deep historical knowledge and engagement with P-Funk and James Brown and classic R&B and funk, it meant he was legible to a hip-hop public that was listening to all the samples.

Is this really true?

― candyman, Saturday, September 26, 2020 12:51 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I don't think so. Don't know where that idea comes from. Prince was pretty much a pop (and some r n b radio ) presence in the NYC Tri-State back then but hip hop heads didn't really check him. I think the first time I heard a Prince sample was on "It Takes Two" and few other records sampling him afterwards. This kind of revisionism irks me. Just as I don't get the current association of the Camille voice by some scholars with anything other than Prince f*#$%ng around with his voice in the studio and having fun with the results.

She seems very intent on conveniently picking and choosing certain aspects of prince for her own purposes. Which to me seems intellectually dishonest. Still, it might be the start of prince as all things to all people. I mean, sure, prince worked with wendy and lisa who were gay, but luther and whitney were gay too! I dont see the connection between SOTT and the slave era either tbh ('sign” as an anticipatory marker of that radicalism'), unless she means the label resentment.

The camille voice is interesting in gender studies terms though, I'd say. More in the idea of prince constructing an evil female persona though than it actually ever sounding female. His engineer in that last podcast says prince started doing it as after recording so much he got sick of hearing his normal voice.

Camille’s not evil! Just uninhibited.

in fact I seem to recall his moral dilemma about the Black Album was described by him in terms of Camille vs Spooky Electric.

Isnt camille a femme fatale type figure on shockadelica? Real shame the camille album was never released. It's such a funky album. And one of his most cohesive.

Camille in shockadelica is more like a succubus figure to me

In the Lovesexy tourbook, apparently prince writes: "Time upon a once, There was a boy named Camille"

Stealing this from prince org. A proposed fan track list of the last p/w&l tracks from 84/85/86. This would make a very cool final revolution album, a more collaborative release, more so than dream factory even, which by the last configuration, had too many solo tracks, so it was prob right he abandoned it as a concept (that and the whole band breakup thing).

side one

Dream Factory (no intro)

Wonderful Day

Witness for the Prosecution

side two

Visions

In a Large Room With No Light

Splash

Empty Room (1985 version)

side three

Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden

Strange Relationship (dream factory version)

Wonderful Ass

side four

Teacher, Teacher

Colors

Power Fantastic

A Place In Heaven (lisa vocal)

All My Dreams

From the Lovesexy tour programme:

Tis nobody funkier—let the Black Album fly. Spooky Electric was talking, Camille started 2 cry. Tricked. A fool he had been. In the lowest utmostest. He had allowed the dark side of him 2 create something evil.

In a Large Room With No Light would have fitted perfectly either after or *instead of* Anotherloverholenyohead on Parade IMO. You'd let that fade out, there'd be a long pause then Sometimes It Snows In April. I mean i haven't even heard the cleaned up version yet; but it's always been my favourite of the unreleased cuts.

Y'all should join Duane Tudahl's facebook page it's great.

Silly, silly prince. How was the black album evil, but dirty mind not? Or gett off and sexy mf? In.the DMSR book, Alan Leeds says TBA could have been a good career marker, an album to spark debate, kind of like princes yeezus if you like, at a time when prince really needed it. I'd agree. Never mind the fact he stumped up to pay for the vinyl to he destroyed himself! Funny how one month hes feeling slighted by warners for denying him a triple album, then a few months after, hes telling them not to release his album, despite them approving it!

(Sexy mf is a nadir btw)

>TBA could have been a good career marker, an album to spark debate

that's exactly what it was! in early 1988 it was hardly difficult to find. we all had the cassette dubbed for each other by December, in Berkeley Leopold's had vinyl boots before Christmas, every record store I saw in Greenwich Village a month later had different varieties of pressings (mine had 'bob george' at the end, which, as the most fucked up track, totally worked)

so there wasn't even much debate, it was an album in Housequake mode but overall rushed, 'Dead On It' was embarrassing, 'Rock Hard' was all time & just when you began to think the hype about it being evil was overstated you get 'Bob George' (which, again... really kinda worked as the last track)

I take that back; the cassette I was dubbed had 'Bob George' at the end

the copy I bought in NYC: https://www.discogs.com/Prince-Black-Album/release/8488157

On the cassette I bought in NYC the track listing went like this:

1 Le Grind
2 Cindy C.
3 Dead On It
4 When 2 R In Love
5 Bob George
6 Superfunkycalifragisexy
7 2 Nigs United 4 West Compton
8 Rockhard In A Funky Place

And I feel like it might have had "Old Friends 4 Sale" tacked on at the end of Side 2...?

Hmmm Bob George at the end is good, agreed. I'd have it like: le grind, cindy c, super..., 2 nigs United... (his greatest jazz fusion track?), rock Hard..., Bob George. Ballads have no place here!

I'll try and copy the Alan Leeds quote later. He thinks dead on it would have inspired a lot of critics to think about prince vs hip hop.

I didn't know The Black Album until a relative had a copy of the official release and told me what it was. (I only knew Prince via the Hits compilations.) At the time, I remember people saying it was overhyped, but even under those deflated expectations, I liked it a lot. "Dead On It" still sucks, "When 2 R In Love" and "West Compton" were just okay (though I've grown to appreciate the latter), but I always thought the rest was pretty awesome. It's no grand statement, it's just a dirty, funky party record, and for the most part it does the job really well.

xxpost that cassette tracklisting was the same as on the vinyl boot I got back in 88 for $35 (big money then).

With the vaults opening as they have been, I wonder if we will get the Black Album again in some form.

Prob if they do (pleasepleaseplease) a Lovesexy box!

Pretty sure lovesexy will be rereleased but as an album that doesnt have any huge hits attached to it, it might be a while. Be cool to get the original versions of the songs though before prince went to town with his new studio though (you can hear the earlier versions on YouTube).

Interesting that as soon as he got PP up and running, his records became slicker and more polished (overproduced in some cases)

I love his Lovesexy demos. Many don’t seem overproduced and they date from ‘87-‘88 ish. Thinking of “Anna Stesia” in particular and “Positivity”.

here's that alan leeds quote -

"it would have had a bigger impact than either parade, sign, or lovesexy did. That doesn't mean it would have sold more, but to people who bought it, it would have meant more. its certainly a record people would either love or hate. and as such, it would have gotten an awful lot of conversation... i think the critics would have had a field day, arguing the pros and cons of the album and whether this was his move into the future, the next step in the evolution of prince the artist, or if it was just a sidetrack. pretend youre a critic in 1987 as this album comes out and youve never heard lovesexy or his subsequent work, are you going to sit there and say 'ok this is thew new prince, this is his next step, prince continues to lead pack in the the evolution of black music, he leads the way into the 90s with his take on hip hop'. or do we review this as a misguided sidestep from sombody who is not a hip hop artist but is trying to be? the critics would have had a ball... it would have been a kind of marker in a career, a turning point, for better or worse, at a time when he arguably needed one'

"Bob George" is the only essential TBA track, hence the only one I need, and I don't care for Lovesexy at all, the long mix of "I Wish U Heaven" excepted.

just reading that has forced me to grab it off the shelf to listen to 'Rockhard' and in my heart I need to believe you will also eventually consider that track essential

listen to the Thelonious horn line one more time and imagine how much fun that thing is to play, it goes everywhere