Brooks: Because of his deep historical knowledge and engagement with P-Funk and James Brown and classic R&B and funk, it meant he was legible to a hip-hop public that was listening to all the samples.
Is this really true?
― candyman, Saturday, September 26, 2020 12:51 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink
I don't think so. Don't know where that idea comes from. Prince was pretty much a pop (and some r n b radio ) presence in the NYC Tri-State back then but hip hop heads didn't really check him. I think the first time I heard a Prince sample was on "It Takes Two" and few other records sampling him afterwards. This kind of revisionism irks me. Just as I don't get the current association of the Camille voice by some scholars with anything other than Prince f*#$%ng around with his voice in the studio and having fun with the results.
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 26 September 2020 19:10 (three years ago) link
She seems very intent on conveniently picking and choosing certain aspects of prince for her own purposes. Which to me seems intellectually dishonest. Still, it might be the start of prince as all things to all people. I mean, sure, prince worked with wendy and lisa who were gay, but luther and whitney were gay too! I dont see the connection between SOTT and the slave era either tbh ('sign” as an anticipatory marker of that radicalism'), unless she means the label resentment.
― candyman, Saturday, 26 September 2020 20:41 (three years ago) link
The camille voice is interesting in gender studies terms though, I'd say. More in the idea of prince constructing an evil female persona though than it actually ever sounding female. His engineer in that last podcast says prince started doing it as after recording so much he got sick of hearing his normal voice.
― candyman, Saturday, 26 September 2020 20:44 (three years ago) link
Camille’s not evil! Just uninhibited.
― assert (MatthewK), Saturday, 26 September 2020 20:48 (three years ago) link
in fact I seem to recall his moral dilemma about the Black Album was described by him in terms of Camille vs Spooky Electric.
― assert (MatthewK), Saturday, 26 September 2020 20:49 (three years ago) link
Isnt camille a femme fatale type figure on shockadelica? Real shame the camille album was never released. It's such a funky album. And one of his most cohesive.
― candyman, Saturday, 26 September 2020 20:52 (three years ago) link
Camille in shockadelica is more like a succubus figure to me
― and i can almost smell your PG Tips (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 26 September 2020 22:55 (three years ago) link
In the Lovesexy tourbook, apparently prince writes: "Time upon a once, There was a boy named Camille"
Stealing this from prince org. A proposed fan track list of the last p/w&l tracks from 84/85/86. This would make a very cool final revolution album, a more collaborative release, more so than dream factory even, which by the last configuration, had too many solo tracks, so it was prob right he abandoned it as a concept (that and the whole band breakup thing).
side one
Dream Factory (no intro)
Wonderful Day
Witness for the Prosecution
side two
Visions
In a Large Room With No Light
Splash
Empty Room (1985 version)
side three
Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden
Strange Relationship (dream factory version)
Wonderful Ass
side four
Teacher, Teacher
Colors
Power Fantastic
A Place In Heaven (lisa vocal)
All My Dreams
― candyman, Saturday, 26 September 2020 22:55 (three years ago) link
From the Lovesexy tour programme:
Tis nobody funkier—let the Black Album fly. Spooky Electric was talking, Camille started 2 cry. Tricked. A fool he had been. In the lowest utmostest. He had allowed the dark side of him 2 create something evil.
― assert (MatthewK), Saturday, 26 September 2020 23:08 (three years ago) link
In a Large Room With No Light would have fitted perfectly either after or *instead of* Anotherloverholenyohead on Parade IMO. You'd let that fade out, there'd be a long pause then Sometimes It Snows In April. I mean i haven't even heard the cleaned up version yet; but it's always been my favourite of the unreleased cuts.
Y'all should join Duane Tudahl's facebook page it's great.
― piscesx, Saturday, 26 September 2020 23:12 (three years ago) link
Silly, silly prince. How was the black album evil, but dirty mind not? Or gett off and sexy mf? In.the DMSR book, Alan Leeds says TBA could have been a good career marker, an album to spark debate, kind of like princes yeezus if you like, at a time when prince really needed it. I'd agree. Never mind the fact he stumped up to pay for the vinyl to he destroyed himself! Funny how one month hes feeling slighted by warners for denying him a triple album, then a few months after, hes telling them not to release his album, despite them approving it!
― candyman, Saturday, 26 September 2020 23:17 (three years ago) link
(Sexy mf is a nadir btw)
― candyman, Saturday, 26 September 2020 23:18 (three years ago) link
>TBA could have been a good career marker, an album to spark debate
that's exactly what it was! in early 1988 it was hardly difficult to find. we all had the cassette dubbed for each other by December, in Berkeley Leopold's had vinyl boots before Christmas, every record store I saw in Greenwich Village a month later had different varieties of pressings (mine had 'bob george' at the end, which, as the most fucked up track, totally worked)
so there wasn't even much debate, it was an album in Housequake mode but overall rushed, 'Dead On It' was embarrassing, 'Rock Hard' was all time & just when you began to think the hype about it being evil was overstated you get 'Bob George' (which, again... really kinda worked as the last track)
― Milton Parker, Saturday, 26 September 2020 23:51 (three years ago) link
I take that back; the cassette I was dubbed had 'Bob George' at the end
the copy I bought in NYC: https://www.discogs.com/Prince-Black-Album/release/8488157
― Milton Parker, Saturday, 26 September 2020 23:54 (three years ago) link
On the cassette I bought in NYC the track listing went like this:
1 Le Grind 2 Cindy C. 3 Dead On It 4 When 2 R In Love 5 Bob George 6 Superfunkycalifragisexy 7 2 Nigs United 4 West Compton 8 Rockhard In A Funky Place
And I feel like it might have had "Old Friends 4 Sale" tacked on at the end of Side 2...?
― but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 27 September 2020 00:00 (three years ago) link
Hmmm Bob George at the end is good, agreed. I'd have it like: le grind, cindy c, super..., 2 nigs United... (his greatest jazz fusion track?), rock Hard..., Bob George. Ballads have no place here!
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 00:06 (three years ago) link
I'll try and copy the Alan Leeds quote later. He thinks dead on it would have inspired a lot of critics to think about prince vs hip hop.
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 00:08 (three years ago) link
I didn't know The Black Album until a relative had a copy of the official release and told me what it was. (I only knew Prince via the Hits compilations.) At the time, I remember people saying it was overhyped, but even under those deflated expectations, I liked it a lot. "Dead On It" still sucks, "When 2 R In Love" and "West Compton" were just okay (though I've grown to appreciate the latter), but I always thought the rest was pretty awesome. It's no grand statement, it's just a dirty, funky party record, and for the most part it does the job really well.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 27 September 2020 05:12 (three years ago) link
xxpost that cassette tracklisting was the same as on the vinyl boot I got back in 88 for $35 (big money then).
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Sunday, 27 September 2020 10:50 (three years ago) link
With the vaults opening as they have been, I wonder if we will get the Black Album again in some form.
― Position Position, Sunday, 27 September 2020 11:15 (three years ago) link
Prob if they do (pleasepleaseplease) a Lovesexy box!
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Sunday, 27 September 2020 12:34 (three years ago) link
Pretty sure lovesexy will be rereleased but as an album that doesnt have any huge hits attached to it, it might be a while. Be cool to get the original versions of the songs though before prince went to town with his new studio though (you can hear the earlier versions on YouTube).
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 16:02 (three years ago) link
Interesting that as soon as he got PP up and running, his records became slicker and more polished (overproduced in some cases)
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 16:03 (three years ago) link
I love his Lovesexy demos. Many don’t seem overproduced and they date from ‘87-‘88 ish. Thinking of “Anna Stesia” in particular and “Positivity”.
― SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Sunday, 27 September 2020 16:14 (three years ago) link
here's that alan leeds quote -
"it would have had a bigger impact than either parade, sign, or lovesexy did. That doesn't mean it would have sold more, but to people who bought it, it would have meant more. its certainly a record people would either love or hate. and as such, it would have gotten an awful lot of conversation... i think the critics would have had a field day, arguing the pros and cons of the album and whether this was his move into the future, the next step in the evolution of prince the artist, or if it was just a sidetrack. pretend youre a critic in 1987 as this album comes out and youve never heard lovesexy or his subsequent work, are you going to sit there and say 'ok this is thew new prince, this is his next step, prince continues to lead pack in the the evolution of black music, he leads the way into the 90s with his take on hip hop'. or do we review this as a misguided sidestep from sombody who is not a hip hop artist but is trying to be? the critics would have had a ball... it would have been a kind of marker in a career, a turning point, for better or worse, at a time when he arguably needed one'
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 17:28 (three years ago) link
"Bob George" is the only essential TBA track, hence the only one I need, and I don't care for Lovesexy at all, the long mix of "I Wish U Heaven" excepted.
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 27 September 2020 20:47 (three years ago) link
just reading that has forced me to grab it off the shelf to listen to 'Rockhard' and in my heart I need to believe you will also eventually consider that track essential
listen to the Thelonious horn line one more time and imagine how much fun that thing is to play, it goes everywhere
― Milton Parker, Sunday, 27 September 2020 20:55 (three years ago) link
The distinctive horn arrangement/hook was written by Eric Leeds years earlier. It was part of his song called Pacemaker. This Pacemaker part was often played live as a horn interpolation in both I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man and It’s Gonna Be A Beautiful Night, in the latter cued by Prince shouting 'Kick some ass' and then accumulating in the hook from Duke Ellington’s Take The ‘A’ Train.
http://princevault.com/index.php?title=Rockhard_In_A_Funky_Place
Take The "A" Train / Pacemaker / I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man (Live In Utrecht) *****
― Milton Parker, Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:12 (three years ago) link
Corrected! Dolphy not Monk
"Prince wanted this line for 'Rockhard in a Funky Place,' and I think I had it half done. He wanted something that was really out there. So I kind of completed the line for that."
Leeds says he was inspired by the '60s avant-garde jazz pioneer Eric Dolphy. "This cat was, like, really out there. He was an early influence on me. So I said, 'OK, I'm gonna try to be Eric Dolphy for a minute. It was very angular, almost a mathematical kind of thing. For every time the line went up, I wanted to turn it around and have it come down in a similar fashion, interval-wise."
sorry, just obsessed with that riff! worked it out on keyboard once. quality construction
https://diffuser.fm/prince-rockhard-in-a-funky-place/
― Milton Parker, Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:21 (three years ago) link
the long mix of "I Wish U Heaven" excepted
part iii of this is top ten Prince for me
― sleeve, Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:26 (three years ago) link
i think not liking "alphabet st." is incorrect
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:35 (three years ago) link
All the lovesexy singles are top notch
Finally got my sott SDE. Very weird to have it and then to hear these songs I've only known from iffy quality audio for years. Very strange and weirdly I feel guilty, even though I bet prince losyebrd to every jb or Hendrix note he could find out there. Both astonishing to have all this, so accessible now, and a bit sad, as I doubt it would ever have happened if prince was still around. Not everything, in fact a lot of this, isnt going to blow me away, but its just great to hear these dorothy parker horns, even if they are totally unnecessary lol
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:46 (three years ago) link
Such great horns, just not at all needed here!
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:47 (three years ago) link
lol yes agreed
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:48 (three years ago) link
what is revelatory is plenty tbh
cf. "when the dawn of the morning comes"
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:49 (three years ago) link
I just started listening to it. Skimmed the main album a bit to see if it sounded different, realised I wasn't actually bothered, then went straight to the vault discs
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:51 (three years ago) link
I'm listening to witness, thinking prince was such a studio rat, the ultimate studio rat maybe, then thinking fuck, he recorded all THIS, maybe out of fear it might not come to him in such volume again, or whatever, and he died in his own studio, which by that point, was also his house. He deserved better.
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 21:54 (three years ago) link
Lol never mind that. Thank god this 60s version of big tall wall never came out. Wendy and lisa were often good influences, but sometimes they deserve blame.
― candyman, Sunday, 27 September 2020 22:53 (three years ago) link
i am not really a "big tall wall" fan in general
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Sunday, 27 September 2020 23:48 (three years ago) link
thinking fuck, he recorded all THIS, maybe out of fear it might not come to him in such volume again, or whatever
not news to anyone obv, but I've been retagging this into the various albums he intended to release, for a listening exercise (downloading "missing" tracks for Camille and from the Crystal Ball compilation, etc) and:
basically between March -> July 1986 he wrote & recorded three versions of the Dream Factory album, ending up with a 1hr 24 double LPand 30 minutes of songs dropped from early cuts of the album
in six weeks from mid-September 1986, but mostly in a few days, he conceived & recorded the 42min Camille album(and wrote and recorded most of The Black Album)
across a few sessions, in five months of late '86, he writes and records another 44min of new stuff for the Crystal Ball triple LP (inc. one song for Sign O' The Times when Warners reject the triple)
from less than 13 months across December 1985 to Jan '87, there's two hours of unreleased songs* written and recorded (I'm quarantining the alt. Big Tall Wall and Dorothy Parker here for listening btw)
the box also includes a CDs-worth of worthwhile alternate takes and mixes (I'm adding the Mavis Staples Train and subscription club live Rebirth and Strange Relationship to push this to 81 mins)
...and the box generously remasters half an hour of unnecessary 7" edits for posterity's sake too. *plus another hour or so of finished songs that the archivist & team whittled away as being lesser!
― erratic wolf angular guitarist (sic), Monday, 28 September 2020 00:54 (three years ago) link
it's exhausting just thinking of listening to all this in album context, let alone writing and recording it
― erratic wolf angular guitarist (sic), Monday, 28 September 2020 00:56 (three years ago) link
tl;dr
― Erdős-szám 69 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 September 2020 00:59 (three years ago) link
Or more like tl;dl amirite
― Erdős-szám 69 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 September 2020 01:00 (three years ago) link
Feel like I read the story of the three other unfinished albums a few times after he died and sort of grasped it for a while but now my head is exploding like a Paisley Piñata.
― Erdős-szám 69 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 28 September 2020 01:34 (three years ago) link
fucking hell his output even crazier than i thought it was when it’s put into context like that
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 28 September 2020 01:34 (three years ago) link
(looks like his only writing for other artists in 1986 was three songs for/with Brownmark's band Mazarati, plus the Bangles recording 1984-written Manic Monday)
― erratic wolf angular guitarist (sic), Monday, 28 September 2020 01:38 (three years ago) link
and Miles Davis, no? "Can I Play with U?"
― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 28 September 2020 01:44 (three years ago) link
there was a lot of writing intended for other artists. "emotional pump" is, hilariously, a song for joni mitchell to sing. most of the songs he reportedly wrote for bonnie raitt are here xp
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 28 September 2020 01:45 (three years ago) link
yeah, iirc four of the unreleased songs on the box were for Bonnie Raitt, and mostly rejected for being too horny
true that Can I Play With U was for/with Miles, I was just looking for any stuff additional to this release
― erratic wolf angular guitarist (sic), Monday, 28 September 2020 01:49 (three years ago) link