Reveal Your Uncool Conservative Beliefs Here

Old Lunch otm on both points.

On the other hand, the guy looks pretty cool/terrifying and should definitely pursue a career as an extreme music front man.

From a customer service standpoint, every single interaction I have ever had with someone who works in government has landed on a spectrum from grossly disappointing to enraging. Social security, inspections & permits, police, department of transportation, traffic engineering, dept of natural resources. All utterly useless stupid clods when not actively deceptive and evil. I am definitely beginning to understand why someone would want to do away with the whole thing. Like, maybe my faith in the power of strong government is magical thinking. Something I want to be true to salve my horror at being ineffective at changing anything by myself.

I’m sorry Peace,Man that you had those experiences. As a lifelong local government official I have tried to treat every citizen seriously and with the highest professionalism.

Whenever someone rants to me about incompetence in government, it fuels my belief that it comes down to a lack of funding.

I envy that you are able to sustain this belief and have not had numerous experiences to the contrary. There are definitely departments and agencies where this is the case, though. There are others that have plenty of funding but are driven by incompetence, laziness, and a culture of buck-passing. Somewhere there has to be City Building Departments that actually work to encourage building, as opposed to, delaying and preventing building, and even repairing of existing buildings !!! Maybe this is my penchant for championing the underdog and not living in places where things work well because maybe those places are also boring? Idk

people should definitely be paid to make things harder tho. j/k. maybe it's lack of funding but i think the bigger problem is that most people are forced to work and they could not care less nor should they.

yes, I think apathy is related to perceived laziness. otm

I find it hard to believe that female candidates actually get interrupted more than male candidates during debates. We just watched Trump literally not let Biden get a complete sentence in for much of the debate. But even removing that outlier I’d bet that Harris didn’t get interrupted more than the average national candidate in a debate.

Dunno about that, but it certainly feels like Democratic candidates get interrupted more often.

In any case it seemed weird to me that that was the takeaway that took hold when the presidential debate was just one long string of interruptions.

According to CNN's clock, they had about equal speaking time - but that's not necessarily a good measure of who interrupted whom, how long they were both trying to speak, or the extent to which Pence spoke over Harris.

That said, I am not sure that this can or should be measured quantitatively. It's not whether you interrupt but how you interrupt, when you interrupt, what you say, how respectful or dismissive you are. Lots of people perceive a longstanding, persistent imbalance. As a white dude I'm not sure I should be the person to tell them they're wrong.

I mean the bigger problem wrt these debates in general is that the moderators moderate jack shit.

high school parliamentary style debating has better moderation

ILX does too OHHHHHHH

I think the whole format is stupid and broken, but I have a little more sympathy with the people who attempt to moderate than most do.

Expecting a journalist or TV host or radio personality to wrangle the egos of people who (by definition) believe they should have the most powerful job in the world is a losing battle. No one who seeks the presidency is likely to be pliable, obedient, polite, and yielding. It's not in their nature. If you seek high political office it's because you think of yourself as a leader, as someone who is (or ought to be) in charge of the conversation. Not obeisant to the instructions of someone who works for CNN or whatever.

Hate to be all devil's avocado on y'all, but it's a reasonable question to ask how/why being "moderatable" is a necessary skill for political office.

That said, I do believe that politicians should be accountable to voters. A politician who appears to listen to - and really answers - questions from common people is admirable. A politician who doesn't, isn't. Let them show who they are, and we will decide accordingly what we value and what we care about.

In a way I agree with Susan Page: if a politician takes questions seriously and gives thoughtful answers, that's important information. If a politician doesn't take a question seriously or won't / can't answer a question, that in itself is valuable information as well.

If you're responsive and thoughtful, it can and should be a point in your favor with people who value that. If you're rude and interrupty and evasive, you can lose voters who are turned off by that. However, you may keep (or gain) the votes of those who perceive your behavior as strength or as impatience with the framing of the questions. That sucks but it is (as they say) what it is.

Finally, the stronger moderation that you seem to want will inevitably get politicized. It will be used to provide evidence of bias (and it has!). It becomes another cudgel to beat the media with. No matter how even-handed and fair a moderator strives to be. So they're damned if they moderate, and damned if they don't moderate.

the format for these things renders them useless. Anybody can give a canned answer in 2 minutes time.

I wrote this in another thread, but I really think a good system would be like speed chess. Give each candaidate on allotment of time—say, 45 mins—and they can budget it however they like. Candidates could save time for issues they feel deserve more attention, and ssave us all the nonsense running-out-the-clock businees with all the interruptions.

Want to spend 20 minutes ranting about your campaign being spied on? Go for it! And then you'll have to shut up when the opposition is addressing something real

I think its gross when rappers refer to the female genitalia as a "monkey"

E-40's "U and Dat" and David Banner's "Play" were both Top 20 Billboard hits!

xp rappers okay but what about Peter Gabriel

Shocking!

I really think a good system would be like speed chess. Give each candaidate on allotment of time—say, 45 mins—and they can budget it however they like.

this is how they do it in France. they even have a little Jeopardy-style screen on each candidate’s podium that shows their remaining time.

whiney, you okay?

From a customer service standpoint, every single interaction I have ever had with someone who works in government has landed on a spectrum from grossly disappointing to enraging. Social security, inspections & permits, police, department of transportation, traffic engineering, dept of natural resources. All utterly useless stupid clods when not actively deceptive and evil. I am definitely beginning to understand why someone would want to do away with the whole thing. Like, maybe my faith in the power of strong government is magical thinking. Something I want to be true to salve my horror at being ineffective at changing anything by myself.

― 📺👁️ (peace, man), Friday, October 2, 2020 10:24 AM (one month ago) bookmarkflaglink

Forgot that I had a really nice interaction with a county park ranger this summer when a bridge went out on a trail my family hikes on. I want to give credit to him for getting back to me quickly, asking the right questions, and solving the problem. Also, at the MVA earlier this month, I brought some of the wrong documentation along when I was trying to get my son's learner's permit and the lady at the counter quietly let us slide. Just want to acknowledge these guys. Really do feel like they are a rare breed though.

fwiw, i worked in the govt for 7 years (joe biden thread connection - "because i'm as evil as joe biden is and obama was, obviously") and found the staff to be similar to everywhere else i've ever worked: some were amazing, some were terrible and some were among the best people i've ever met, with many gradations between. there's not some sort of test when you get into the government which guarantees you're an asshole.

also, i'll say this, though i'll stress up front that this is what public servants sign up for and expect: when a lot of people contact the government (over the phone, in person, whatever) they are doing so because they're in a tough spot, they're angry, they've been trying to figure out who to talk to and keep getting passed around, etc. they are pissed, and understandably so. however, due to the way large bureaucracies work, the person who ends up picking may very well have no idea how to help the person, other than to offer another generic phone line where someone helpful may or may not be helpful. it fucking sucks for everyone involved (especially the people who have been let down by the State).

it's not about the evil or goodness of the people who are asking, or the people who are responding. it's the circumstances they both find themselves in. switch the government worker around with the person struggling, and you'll likely find the same frustrating interactions taking place

KMotmfm

i work for the govt in a customer service capacity and have people tell me to die on a weekly basis. its tedious. my uncool conservative belief is that even in routine bureaucratic interactions, a huge majority of people go into customer service interactions with govt employees with aggressive & dehumanizing attitudes that they dont normally carry into similar private-sector interactions with, say, their gym or whatever, because of deeply baked-in ideas about govt employees being lazy assholes "because they cant get fired", etc. Similar to people who rag on teachers for "having summers off".

truthbomb: most people at most jobs are the same

Otm on both counts

it's not about the evil or goodness of the people who are asking, or the people who are responding. it's the circumstances they both find themselves in. switch the government worker around with the person struggling, and you'll likely find the same frustrating interactions taking place

my experience is that in many cases, the workers who interact with the public don't have very much power and latitude to do things. It is built into the bureaucratic system.

it is this system and its variants that created Karens.

A series of excellent posts

Labor compensation/rights only rise when there is a scarcity of labor compared to capital. Expanded legal immigration (incl H1B visas for skilled workers) and free trade (forcing Americans to compete with billions in the developing world) have both harmed Americans in the 99% and the labor movement, while benefiting primarily those that direct capital flows in 1%.

Zoom out far enough, and Trumpism was an irrational cult of personality attached to a recognition that tremendous harm to US citizens has come from trade agreements and excess immigration. The villains in the 90s were the GOP and DLC aligned Dems: in the congressional votes progressive Dems opposed NAFTA, opposed most favored nation trade status for China. Progressives shouldn't have to pretend these were good for US citizens.

also, i'll say this, though i'll stress up front that this is what public servants sign up for and expect: when a lot of people contact the government (over the phone, in person, whatever) they are doing so because they're in a tough spot, they're angry, they've been trying to figure out who to talk to and keep getting passed around, etc. they are pissed, and understandably so. however, due to the way large bureaucracies work, the person who ends up picking may very well have no idea how to help the person, other than to offer another generic phone line where someone helpful may or may not be helpful. it fucking sucks for everyone involved (especially the people who have been let down by the State).

I compare these hapless employees to those who work for baggage claim departments. They spend 10 hours a day getting yelled at by travelers with lost luggage, never getting complimented.

I honestly feel we should stop looking to Buddhist monks for the key to inner peace and centeredness when the world around you is shitty and loud and start instead asking baggage claim clerks and airport gate agents

Labor compensation/rights only rise when there is a scarcity of labor compared to capital. Expanded legal immigration (incl H1B visas for skilled workers) and free trade (forcing Americans to compete with billions in the developing world) have both harmed Americans in the 99% and the labor movement, while benefiting primarily those that direct capital flows in 1%.

Zoom out far enough, and Trumpism was an irrational cult of personality attached to a recognition that tremendous harm to US citizens has come from trade agreements and excess immigration. The villains in the 90s were the GOP and DLC aligned Dems: in the congressional votes progressive Dems opposed NAFTA, opposed most favored nation trade status for China. Progressives shouldn't have to pretend these were good for US citizens.

― Advanced Doomscroller (Sanpaku), Wednesday, November 25, 2020 6:10 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

a lot of Americans are legal immigrants, dickhead

"legal" that should be

yeah i didn’t even want to get into all that but i’m glad someone is

This is the uncool conservative beliefs thread ...

Fascism is even less cool

Even Hitler Imported Guest Workers

o_O

I'm reading "The Wages of Destruction" by Adam Tooze -- it is about Hitlerian economics

The development of fracking is overall a good thing

I mean I can't complain that it keeps me supplied with cheap natural gas for cooking with

the kind of wildcat strike of a take this thread needed

Calling a white person who lives in the US a "colonizer" is stupid

despite the risk of it being snatched by a bandit, the best way to cool off a freshly-baked pie is still to set it on a good old fashioned open windowsill, no matter what elon musk says

one of these is not like the other:

A hundred years apart but the same angst - on the left Edward Munch (1919) on the right Tracey Emin today. A cathartic exhibition @royalacademy pic.twitter.com/cgA9uMWFhz

— Philip Mould (@philipmould) December 13, 2020

is that actually how they were installed? Is that some weird angle they were photographed at? Horrible, I say -- the centers don't appear to be aligned ... my conservative belief