ADMIN LOG WATCH 2

(xp for jim)

any comparison to Gervais is cruel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0l3QWUXVho

you know what's cruel? a burrito that is too fat to eat. think about it

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.13128

― bogo jumbo boba (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:11 AM (twenty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

(xp for jim)

― bogo jumbo boba (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:12 AM (twenty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

ok, maybe there is some data. but it still seems like there was a lot of luxuriating in pointing out that trump is fat and how that meant COVID was going to be worse for him (so much for that, it seems)

you know what's cruel? a burrito that is too fat to eat. think about it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhhXCuUG2pw

I just had a hearty meal and this thread is making me hungry again.

also just a reminder, linking fatness to some kind of lapse in judgment or fundamental moral failing is one of the most fundamental and toxic aspects of fatphobia. people who are fat are *routinely treated like* they are selfish, indulgent, immoral pariahs lacking in self control. among the ways this happens is people telling dumb jokes or leaning gleefully into phrases like "tub of lard."

so to pick out a terrible person and go "hey it's cool to tell these dumb jokes and mock THIS guy's fatness, because HE'S a selfish, indulgent, immoral pariah lacking in self-control!" --- this is just repeating bodyshaming myths with the words in a different order. and again, i have yet to see any fat activists or to my knowledge any fat people at all saying "oh actually, if it's turning the tables on someone who shames others for their bodies, then it's a-ok!". i am not fat, but i don't want this board to be something i'd be ashamed to reveal to my fat friends.

^ as always doc otmartin

doc otm

The Republican platform endorses Puerto Rico statehood

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/obr.13128🕸

― bogo jumbo boba (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:11 AM (twenty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

(xp for jim)

― bogo jumbo boba (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:12 AM (twenty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

ok, maybe there is some data. but it still seems like there was a lot of luxuriating in pointing out that trump is fat and how that meant COVID was going to be worse for him (so much for that, it seems)

wut

oh Zing artifacts?

i have yet to see any fat activists or to my knowledge any fat people at all saying "oh actually, if it's turning the tables on someone who shames others for their bodies, then it's a-ok!"

someone who shames others for their bodies and is a horrible person in a position of great power ... I'm not entirely "a-ok" with it, but tbh, I was not as un-ok with it as I would be for most other people. See also wishing death on horrible people in positions of great power.... but I'm an actual fat person so ... idk?

i mean, your perspective is more relevant here than mine!

The fact that 20 people expressed their perspective to flag the post is perhaps most relevant -- like, I am just one fat person, and I don't speak for all fat people! And to be super real, I am way more willing to give a pass on fat-shaming when cis-men are being "shamed" as opposed to women, but is that ethical? Idk? Sorry, that's just how I feel.

i feel that, and to be super real myself, i'm sure that i have given similar passes in other situations. the doubling-down from burrito is what drew me to writing longer soapbox posts in this case.

The New KFC Burrito Double Down Meal

do you need a yellow card about making horribly formed jokes, forks?

no need to be jaundiced

A bit of a quibble/controp: being shamed into changing one's behaviour *can* be helpful in some cases. Speaking for myself and myself only, I probably would have never stopped smoking without a socially-instilled sense that it's utterly disgusting and stupid and expensive and self-destructive, which I feel more strongly when I'm in Canada than when I'm in Romania or France. Not to mention there are plenty of cultures (most?) where, for better or for worse, people don't feel the need to hold back when discussing this stuff. If they think you're overweight, drinking too much, not getting enough exercice, etc., they'll say it outright, and most of the time it's not even meant as an insult, it's more like: 'you really need to do something about that, buddy, it's seriously a shame', point blank. I'm not saying it's the right way to do it – if anything, my understanding is that scientific studies have shown fat-shaming in particular to be ineffective – but I find the cultural facet of it quite interesting. Like, I'm glad I live in a country where homophobes are shamed into shutting up, which I wish was also the case in Romania, say. So yeah, I'm not trying to defend the burrito here, I just have a hard time navigating this shit sometimes.

fatness is not a "behavior" though. so even without evaluating shaming's putative effectiveness in your other examples, applying this logic to the case of fatshaming seems dubious at best.

more fundamentally, fatness is also not something in need of correcting

If you say so. I'll keep my barbaric thoughts to myself next time.

I'm not trying to defend the burrito here

I want this to become an expression.

Aka playing burrito's advocate.

fwiw no one said your thoughts were "barbaric" but ok

Thursday, October 15, 2020 3:11 AM All Noise Dude Summertime Fun Board and Pickle Bar Message edited to : Fraud Alert - [NAME REMOVED] - $1
Reply to: anon-103209✧✧✧@craigsl✧✧✧.o✧✧
Date: 2005-10-10, 4:44PM EDT

Hi everyone,

Beware of a guy who is calling himself a Personal Trainer, [NAME REMOVED]. He frequently posts here. He is a theif and their is a warrant out for his arrest. BEWARE, this guy is dangerous.

Eric Damon Reavis complained

^ because we haven't experienced the random banal beauty of admin log entries like this in too long ...

good reminder not to source your personal trainers from ilx

only life coaches

and YSIs

and ox gallstones

at first, i thought the idea of a "seven day permanence" was a silly artifact of new mod policy mixed with old board code. but then i realized that, according to various creation myths, we've all been born into a sort of seven day permanence (the universe still exists even in its heat death). in this way, the mods have inserted themselves as gods into the mythology of this board.

xp ox gallstones post is a very good post, and i want to highlight that now that i've posted some bullshit directly after

On the seventh day, god read his bookmarks

fatness is not a "behavior" though. so even without evaluating shaming's putative effectiveness in your other examples, applying this logic to the case of fatshaming seems dubious at best.

otm, don't really get pom's weird defensiveness in response

If addiction isn’t ‘behaviour’, I agree, doubly so if you subscribe to a hard account of determinism. Otherwise I’m not going to pretend we’re on the same wavelength. If smoking and drinking are bad for you, so is being overweight, and certain cultures stress the latter (albeit not the former) more forcefully than others (China, for instance), whereas much of the Western English-speaking world (the US, Canada, the UK, etc., whose obesity rates are startlingly and disturbingly high) do not, which does perhaps – perhaps! – make a difference in practice, but I would like to emphasize once again that I am not absolutely certain of this, I was just thinking out loud about hypothetical cultural factors. One’s environment does play an important role, as you can see here, for instance:

https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/resources/diseases/obesity/obesedit.htm

Overeating is behaviour (sometimes addictive/compulsive).

Being overweight/obese doesn't necessarily always follow.

Lung cancer isn't a behaviour.

I think the piece of the puzzle you're missing here is that biology factors in - I never exercise and eat like shit yet am a skinny motherfucker, my wife eats healthy and does a lot of exercise yet is very much what would be seen as "overweight". So while we can discuss these things on a macro level individual shaming is 100% pointless unless you actually know the person so well that you can make that call.

xpost

individual shaming is 100% pointless

This is true and I never said the opposite! I was just talking about how differently these issues are collectively treated from culture to culture and the effect that might have on the population.

Btw that piece I linked to does discuss biology.

Overeating is behaviour (sometimes addictive/compulsive).

Being overweight/obese doesn't necessarily always follow.

Yes, this is also technically true. I was thinking in broader and hence imprecise terms, which I'll rectify.

I think that collective shaming might indeed have an effect here, but the impact it has on the mental health of fat people who aren't going to lose weight over it makes it too morally reprehensible to see it as a benefit of any kind.

That's a fair point. Cultures where collective shaming is prevalent generally don't give a damn about outliers. They tend to be viewed as sacrificial cattle, in a sense.

pomenitul, i'm not sure i follow - how did we get to "addiction"?

we must have whole threads for this, but just tossing out some thoughts here: "overweight" is a social construction (over what weight exactly? according to who?), the medical basis of which is actually not as sound as people often think it is. I Am Not A Doctor, but, a lot of health conditions that get linked colloquially to fatness are actually to do with other things like cholesterol or sodium intake, which sometimes can correspond with fatness but also often don't. picture the classic skinny nerd who eats nothing but chicken tenders and frozen pizza - this person is almost certainly less healthy, more in danger of heart disease, etc., than my fat friend who between her backyard garden and farmers' market job eats more fresh produce in a month than i eat in a year.

there's also considerable reason to believe that actually the real health plague here is fatphobia! my understanding from reading and hearing the experiences of other people is that:

(a) if a fat person goes to the doctor with X symptom, they are more likely to be told to focus on exercise and diet, and the actual condition causing X may go totally undiagnosed because the doctor just sees a fat person who needs to be turned into a skinny person. this is one of those things that i'm told is way way more common than skinny people would ever assume it is, because we haven't experienced it. many fat people know this, and therefore have a whole extra reason to avoid going to the doctor, on top of all the reasons the rest of us have, so that's a problem.

(b) there's an entire universe of products and practices that are incredibly bad for your physical and mental health and which can be blamed directly on fat-shaming and a fatphobic culture: crash dieting, speed pills, eating disorders. unlike fatness, those are unambiguously bad for you; they kill people and wreck lives all the time. also more generally being told constantly that your body is bad, wrong, hideous, shameful, sexually undesirable, a sign that your ideas should not be taken seriously at work, etc., etc., is prettttttty obviously bad for your mental health.

Big yes to all of that - BMI is unscientific nonsense, and the stigma of just getting told the same damn weight loss advice basically no matter what your problems are at the GP is demoralizing enough that lots of fat people avoid it whenever possible, which is obviously not great.

I wholeheartedly agree with points a) and b) but am somewhat taken aback by your tendency to minimize medical grounds for alerting people to the negative effects of being overweight. I am also very much aware that 'skinny-fat' is a thing, and that BMI (to cite the most popular example) is not the be-all, end-all. That being said, while 'overweight' as a category is indeed a social construct (I mean, absolutely everything is, in a certain sense), I fail to see how that makes 'fatness' healthy (also a social construct, while we're at it). It sounds like you're taking issue with the medical consensus because it doesn't fully account for the sociological facet of 'fatness', but do we really have to pick sides here?

As for addiction, overeating plays a highly significant part in the obesity epidemic. Indeed, genetic factors are not enough to explain the phenomenon on their own, although they do play an obvious part.

xp

dude just stop

Man, you guys are weird.

I'm not advocating for fat-shaming ffs. But if the baseline is 'fatness is also not something in need of correcting' to quote DC's post from a couple of days ago, that's honestly fucked up and a parody of anglo wokeness in 2020. I look forward to your FPs.