ADMIN LOG WATCH 2

Big yes to all of that - BMI is unscientific nonsense, and the stigma of just getting told the same damn weight loss advice basically no matter what your problems are at the GP is demoralizing enough that lots of fat people avoid it whenever possible, which is obviously not great.

I wholeheartedly agree with points a) and b) but am somewhat taken aback by your tendency to minimize medical grounds for alerting people to the negative effects of being overweight. I am also very much aware that 'skinny-fat' is a thing, and that BMI (to cite the most popular example) is not the be-all, end-all. That being said, while 'overweight' as a category is indeed a social construct (I mean, absolutely everything is, in a certain sense), I fail to see how that makes 'fatness' healthy (also a social construct, while we're at it). It sounds like you're taking issue with the medical consensus because it doesn't fully account for the sociological facet of 'fatness', but do we really have to pick sides here?

As for addiction, overeating plays a highly significant part in the obesity epidemic. Indeed, genetic factors are not enough to explain the phenomenon on their own, although they do play an obvious part.

xp

dude just stop

Man, you guys are weird.

I'm not advocating for fat-shaming ffs. But if the baseline is 'fatness is also not something in need of correcting' to quote DC's post from a couple of days ago, that's honestly fucked up and a parody of anglo wokeness in 2020. I look forward to your FPs.

Urgh pom please stop describing everything you disagree with as "anglo". I've heard the stances taken by Doctor Casino from plenty of non-anglos, and indeed in conversations not conducted in English.

You live in the UK.

Yes - I have also lived in other places, and talked to people who aren't from the UK, as per the post above.

Pom, man, stop. I don't have the energy to go into this and Doctor Casino has said most of what I would have done, so all I can say is that this is a very bad hill for you to be dying on.

I'll stop, just don't expect me to change my mind. I think you've all been brainwashed tbh. And on that note, I'm out of this thread.

pomenitul if you are still reading: i am writing as a non-fat person who grew up with a lot of the same notions you're broadcasting here, and have come to change my thinking about this in my adult life. really i've only gotten to where i could begin to articulate the posts above in the past few years, as i've befriended fat activists, read a little more literature, and had my preconceptions convincingly challenged in ways i could not dispute. i submit that i was more brainwashed *before* i had my mind expanded on this issue than i was after. (that's why words like "woke" exist, also!)

so rather than just repeating the unsubstantiated claim that fatness is unhealthy --- indeed treating it so foundationally, a priori obvious that anyone challenging it must be some parody of something --- maybe there'd be some mileage in seriously considering the arguments, or doing some of the reading yourself with an open mind? just saying.

(and, just to be clear: my issue is not with "alerting people to the negative effects of being overweight," it's with the notion that such effects meaningfully exist. and in turn, with the real-world impacts on people's lives of insisting that they do, as a key leg propping up a very damaging and endemic culture of fatphobia, which does do medical harm.)

DC can you clarify how that claim is unsubstantiated? It seems verifiable that fatness has proportionate physical effects on the body. I want to know wha the counterpoints are.

I think both sides of this discussion would accept that there's a correlation of obesity (whatever the threshold, the correlation is there with that threshold) and health problems. But this is a study of a very large number of people. And from looking at the list of health problems, it's easy to imagine obesity isn't the actual cause of the health problem. For example, obesity correlates with mental illness. Do you really expect the dominant cause of this is not external to obesity itself? If you have correlation with mental illness and accept the relationship with body size is not direct, how many of the other health problems in the list are more likely to be caused by that mental illness?

it may be possible to argue against 'fatness is also not something in need of correcting', but that's also not something you correct in interactions with small groups of people. maybe let that influence policies you believe in or how you vote. don't assume a person with a bigger body is less healthy -- that's not how statistics work, or that you need to tell them they need to correct something. you are contributing directly to one of the health issues you claim to care about.

xp Many people labeled obese are also malnourished

but this is a weird place to have this conversation

the place where the conversation started seems like a fine place to have the conversation

I Am Not A Doctor, but, a lot of health conditions that get linked colloquially to fatness are actually to do with other things like cholesterol or sodium intake, which sometimes can correspond with fatness but also often don't. picture the classic skinny nerd who eats nothing but chicken tenders and frozen pizza - this person is almost certainly less healthy, more in danger of heart disease, etc., than my fat friend who between her backyard garden and farmers' market job eats more fresh produce in a month than i eat in a year.

also happy to move this to an on-topic thread. is there a decent one? i opened up "the right to be fat?", but as the question mark suggests, it does not appear to have been started in good faith and there's some pretty hateful shit right up at the top. maybe less bad more recently.

what the fuck

you know how stet offered to set anybody up with their own boards? is there one of those out there with former female ilxors or formers ilxors with good taste in music?

hey I have an idea how about we start a poll where ilxors can tell us if they’re overweight or not

3 posts in, and i have no idea what you are trying to communicate.

overeating plays a highly significant part in the obesity epidemic.

xp I’m just here to make everybody uncomfortable

we’re all experts here

it just seems like this is a “controversy” that should have been put to bed awhile back. I don’t know a lot about proper public health strategies but I don’t think “shame” is a powerful long term motivator for anything really. It’s sanctimonious for non fat people to judge people for being fat, but so is this post.

signed a tall 150 pound man

sorry everybody I’m done

Honestly, the thing is that humans are flawed but entitled to self-determination, as long as they aren't harming others. The vast majority of the population does not live their lives to maximize their health and well-being based on scientific evidence. And because fat is visible, and (at least here in the US) culturally "bad" -- this aspect of imperfection gets focused on, as opposed to countless other human flaws that don't. Like, idk, being able to do arithmetic in your head -- people that can easily do arithmetic in their heads are probably statistically more likely to live better lives -- but there isn't a culture of "You should consider working on being able to arithmetic in your head. You'll feel a lot better once you can do this."

In short ... fat-shaming, for me, is less about the flawed science and social construct, but mostly about, "I am not perfect, and I will never attain perfection, because I am human, and you know what, neither will you, so shut the fuck up!"

Sarahell drops the truthbomb here

the thing is that humans are flawed but entitled to self-determination, as long as they aren't harming others

Right, and you can live the most textbookish "healthy" lifestyle possile, and still die stupidly because your house slides into the sea, or because Hope Hicks coughed on you, or because a rabid marmot bites your femoral artery.

Which totally happened to someone who is a friend of my dentist's cousin's friend's roommate

In other words, I'm not going to be posting the masturbating orangutan video in protest ... even though I do like burrito a lot

― sarahell, Tuesday, October 13, 2020 10:08 AM (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

thank you for going easier on me than some of the rabidly punitive shamemongers around here.

you're alright in my book ... even though I do like the masturbating orangutan video a lot

little burr generator

defined by the generation of burritos

welcome back

To that same old place that you laughed about

Honestly, the thing is that humans are flawed but entitled to self-determination, as long as they aren't harming others. The vast majority of the population does not live their lives to maximize their health and well-being based on scientific evidence. And because fat is visible, and (at least here in the US) culturally "bad" -- this aspect of imperfection gets focused on, as opposed to countless other human flaws that don't. Like, idk, being able to do arithmetic in your head -- people that can easily do arithmetic in their heads are probably statistically more likely to live better lives -- but there isn't a culture of "You should consider working on being able to arithmetic in your head. You'll feel a lot better once you can do this."

In short ... fat-shaming, for me, is less about the flawed science and social construct, but mostly about, "I am not perfect, and I will never attain perfection, because I am human, and you know what, neither will you, so shut the fuck up!"

― sarahell, Friday, October 16, 2020 1:47 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is really good. there is still wisdom on ilx sometimes.

defined by the generation of burritos
― seven day permanence (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, October 18, 2020

Thursday, October 22, 2020 12:06 PM Site Three Word Username has been banned permanently. Seven day timeout. 21 FPs in the space of an hour

20 of those were the same person tho

lol

Really want his responses removed from that thread but i know why that would probably be a bad idea

i understand the impulse but i also think it's in keeping with the spirit of both bill and ilx that, to quote Wesley Snipes, some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill

The most fitting of tributes.

lol forks xp

wondering why an edited post on 77 is showing up on Admin Log ... ? It shouldn't be, right?

maybe it only shows up for people with 77 access?

Think it would be best removed tho if poss

I can't see it. I can however see (Left) is unbanned, o joy.