Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

I understand loathing the Democratic Party for selling itself to Wall Street bread in the Reagan era. I renounced my membership for more than a decade after that blow and the eagerness with which it caved to George W. Bush in the early '00s. But the party's left-er now thanks to activists more active than I've been, and thanks to them I've joined in my small way. We're never going to agree that the bumbling, garrulous, dumbfuck, and often unconsciously evil Joe Biden doesn't head a different party than the one in which he hung Anita Hill out to dry, pushed the crime bill, and supported a smart Iraq War.

What I won't tolerate is a straight white guy cracking moronic gallows humor jokes about what the Dems might do to the minorities who support them.

That the gallows humor is even possible is... kinda the point. This is a party that didn't support same-sex marriage until after the Supreme Court forced it upon them, because its political calculation was that it wasn't a winner. This is a party that wants to shoot Black Lives Matter protesters in the leg. The zip code donating the second most money to Joe Biden in 2020 rose up as one... to kick unhoused people out of their shelter in the midst of a deadly pandemic.

The jokes are only possible because of the Democratic Party's record.

Good thing there is another entity with national reach, significant popular support, demonstrable institutional power, and thousands of elected officials at every level of government that isn't as tarnished as the Democrats.

o wait

No idea what you're arguing there. I voted for Joe Biden two days ago, like every other ILXor who'll speak up is going to do. Doesn't make his desire to spit in our eyes by making John Kasich Secretary of the Interior any less vile.

No idea what you're trying to accomplish by pointing this out for the forty-seven-thousandth time, so.

"this is a party that didn't support same-sex marriage until after the Supreme Court forced it upon them"

that is not true at all, and makes me question all of your other arguments

Look at Congressional Democrats right up until Obergefell - something like a quarter of each body's Democrats remained opposed to same-sex marriage into 2014 and 2015.

I wonder why the rest of the party scrambled to keep up with Joe Biden in 2012.

Biden announced he was in favor of same-sex marriage in May of 2012, a day before Obama also came out for it, 3 years before Obergefell

No idea what you're trying to accomplish by pointing this out for the forty-seven-thousandth time, so.

which leads to my main point about civil war 2, which is what the

*guy with wheelbarrow*

"And I'M the guy with the wheelbarrow!*

*boinginginginging

all of politics ilx is posters making their pet points over and over (including me). not sure why milo gets singled out.
― it bangs for thee (Simon H.)

You're less obtuse about whom he addresses.

Biden announced he was in favor of same-sex marriage in May of 2012, a day before Obama also came out for it, 3 years before Obergefell

Fair enough - revise my statement to 2012, we'll go with the top of the heap rather than Congress. Which means they were lagging well behind their voters, right? Democrats could have repealed DOMA in 2009-10, Obama could have come out for it in 2008, etc.. I don't think he ever opposed it personally, do you? It was a political calculation, throwing a constituency under the bus for political expediency.

Democratic voters are generally fine - except for the rich ones in Manhattan, obviously, they're scum - I doubt I've ever voiced any problems with them, aside from their willingness to keep getting rooked election after election.

Milo’s pet points aren’t what irritate people.

Other posters make similar points all the time, but without the condescension.

There’s also that whole thing he does where he moves the goalposts constantly, which is just flat-out troll behavior.

Are there a lot of examples of major parties being ahead of their voters? I didn't think it usually worked like that.

all of politics ilx is posters making their pet points over and over (including me). not sure why milo gets singled out.
― it bangs for thee (Simon H.)

I think it is his tone-deafness that puts him over the top. He pushes his assertions to the point where no one could take them seriously, yet does so without any hint of humor or sense of how he sounds to an audience of ilxors, most of whom understand the issues and problems he addresses through decades of engagement, to whom his simple minded comments just seem endlessly inane. He's not a troll, but he might as well be for all he ever contributes of real value.

I've never FP'ed him for being stupid, crass, and arrogant, but I've been sorely tempted many times.

milo "joked" on this thread back in june that biden should be assassinated. he's a troll and engaging with him on this subject is pointless.

xp Would LBJ throwing the south overboard count? Truman tried to push through Medicare-like programs in the '40s and it taking until the Great Society to pass - and is now half the third rail? Reagan Republicans were out front of its voters on social issues - like LBJ, willing to cause realignment to get their way.

When you get into natsec/war/defense and economic policy, elite leadership is pretty standard - which is what makes it more galling when elected Democrats lag so far behind their voters on... pretty much everything.

xp In response to what can be done for better candidates now, IIRC - and I would gladly trade him for Harris, who is undoubtedly firing at 100% mental capacity.

I would question the sanity of any Biden voter who wouldn't be overjoyed at Harris stepping in to the role on January 22nd.

That would be an exceptionally tricky transition to pull off. VPs are not automatically granted any political weight upon succession to office, in that they are regarded in DC as afterthoughts in the minds of voters. Stepping in on Inauguration Day would be like climbing Chomolungma without supplementary oxygen.

on the other hand, i would be okay if trump's chomolungmas were without supplementary oxygen

Honestly, the thing about milo that bothers me the most is just the relentless cynicism, which I find really dispiriting.

I'm a pessimist about the Democrats but I think I'm actually quite a bit less cynical than the people who said, here, during the primaries, that it didn't really matter which Democrat got the nomination. They'd "be fine" regardless. Which I think is completely true, if you were of a certain class the Obama years were a boon all around and the same for people old enough for the Clinton years - but getting yelled at by someone with that attitude doesn't really make the yelling feel like it's being done in good faith.

Having a conversation with your mom about her gums separating from her teeth because she's 69 years old and has never been to the dentist, and Medicare doesn't cover anything dental (unlike Medicare For All, which Biden would veto), and you're still paying off $2500 on a credit card from your own root canal - and then a few hours later having someone trot out a "oh lookit the straight white man" because they don't like your criticism of Joe Biden... doesn't really put me in the mood to be charitable about anyone's politics.

I've listened to a lot of Biden and never heard him articulate any positive, appealing vision for an American future. It's all nostalgia, healing, repair, hard conversations around the kitchen table by good people trying to endure. It's such a contrast to both Trump and Bernie

— Pinboard (@Pinboard) October 21, 2020

whereas Trump articulates a positive, appealing vision for an American future.

I mean positive in the sense of "we will do X, Y, and Z", not an assessment of whether I like it or not

— Pinboard (@Pinboard) October 21, 2020

Am I arguing with you or Pinboard?

He's done so in town halls (including one in Miami two weeks ago), addresses, and even his dam commercials, which, as I noted last week, in Florida have stopped attacking Donald Trump.

See? Easy.

That tweet (following that video) was something that resonated with me. Your comment was something that Pinboard got in his mentions so I linked his answer.

Milo, if you want to talk about your own shit, that is your prerogative. I don't want to hear your dark humor about my shit.

xyz - whatever (abhorrent) "positive, appealing vision" Trump had for his base in 2016 is gone in 2020. His platform has been reduced to whining about how unfair the liberal media is.

well they do call themselves the liberal media after all

u can't spell "liberal" without "lie"

or "Bra"

Milo, if you want to talk about your own shit, that is your prerogative. I don't want to hear your dark humor about my shit.

The good news, you didn’t! Suspicious you actually thought I was involved in the exchange with xyz and President Keyes.

It would be completely in character for the Democrats to win by double digits and take 375 EVs and form a Government of National Unity that criminalizes being gay.

― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Tuesday, October 20, 2020 5:49 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

this was the offending post. just walk it back. apologize for doing what people said you did and move on. it doesn't invalidate your own struggles, which are different but with which we also sympathize.

I didn't do what "people said I did," though, so that would be dumb. I didn't speak for anyone, I didn't offer up "dark humor about" anything that could be construed as DJP's shit, what I did was make a crack about the worthlessness of the Democratic Party and their readiness to win a landslide and govern as if Republicans deserve a greater voice in government than any actually Democratic constituency.

you did though, is the thing, whether you realize it or not. but I'll take my own advice and move on.

milo, as someone who only just came off a banning, I recommend you apologize to the people you offended, and back down.

trolls never back down, folks

govern as if Republicans deserve a greater voice in government than any actually Democratic constituency

Including one (1) cabinet position from the opposite party was, for a while, a tradition. Olive branch. Spirit of bipartisanship, bringing the country together, bkah blah blah.

Because, in theory, the President is supposed the President of the whole country, not just the people that voted for him or her. I know the notion seems quaint now (and infuriates partisans), but it was a standard practice for a while.

Often as not, it was something boring like Transportation. Cf. Ray LaHood.

Sometimes it was just carryover, allowing a cabinet member to stay on.

No one has suggested appointing Republicans to multiple Cabinet positions. Nor has any serious person suggested that Republicans should have "a greater voice in government."

current season of Fargo seems relevant

Biden could let Barr stay on and see out his investigations.

Nor is the Republican cabinet official going to be Jeff Flake, it's going to be, at the most right wing, Bill Weld or Charlie Baker or one of the Ms. Whitmans. Maybe he'd go crazy and go all the way to Tommy Thompson.

Nor is the Republican cabinet official going to be Jeff Flake, it's going to be, at the most right wing, Bill Weld or Charlie Baker or one of the Ms. Whitmans. Maybe he'd go crazy and go all the way to Tommy Thompson.

Sorry.

A tradition in an era when liberal Republicans and segregationist southern Democrats existed is not the same as continuing it today, when it has been decades since any Republican existed who wasn't evil.

Obama had two Republican Secretaries of Defense, all while Mitch McConnell openly stated that his only goal in life was to obstruct Obama's very existence. That's what makes all of this VMIC.

Nor has any serious person suggested that Republicans should have "a greater voice in government."

4-8 Republican Senators could, right now, stop the Amy Coney Barrett nomination in its tracks. If they're unwilling to do that, why would you brag about bringing them into the governing coalition?

Welp, milo's consistent doubling down on, by insisting he made an accurate assessment of the Democratic Party's intentions toward lgbtq people, rather than making a dumb joke, finally earned him an FP from me.