Joe Biden, Senator from Citibank (oops, DELAWARE), to Run for President

I mean positive in the sense of "we will do X, Y, and Z", not an assessment of whether I like it or not

— Pinboard (@Pinboard) October 21, 2020

Am I arguing with you or Pinboard?

He's done so in town halls (including one in Miami two weeks ago), addresses, and even his dam commercials, which, as I noted last week, in Florida have stopped attacking Donald Trump.

See? Easy.

That tweet (following that video) was something that resonated with me. Your comment was something that Pinboard got in his mentions so I linked his answer.

Milo, if you want to talk about your own shit, that is your prerogative. I don't want to hear your dark humor about my shit.

xyz - whatever (abhorrent) "positive, appealing vision" Trump had for his base in 2016 is gone in 2020. His platform has been reduced to whining about how unfair the liberal media is.

well they do call themselves the liberal media after all

u can't spell "liberal" without "lie"

or "Bra"

Milo, if you want to talk about your own shit, that is your prerogative. I don't want to hear your dark humor about my shit.

The good news, you didn’t! Suspicious you actually thought I was involved in the exchange with xyz and President Keyes.

It would be completely in character for the Democrats to win by double digits and take 375 EVs and form a Government of National Unity that criminalizes being gay.

― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Tuesday, October 20, 2020 5:49 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

this was the offending post. just walk it back. apologize for doing what people said you did and move on. it doesn't invalidate your own struggles, which are different but with which we also sympathize.

I didn't do what "people said I did," though, so that would be dumb. I didn't speak for anyone, I didn't offer up "dark humor about" anything that could be construed as DJP's shit, what I did was make a crack about the worthlessness of the Democratic Party and their readiness to win a landslide and govern as if Republicans deserve a greater voice in government than any actually Democratic constituency.

you did though, is the thing, whether you realize it or not. but I'll take my own advice and move on.

milo, as someone who only just came off a banning, I recommend you apologize to the people you offended, and back down.

trolls never back down, folks

govern as if Republicans deserve a greater voice in government than any actually Democratic constituency

Including one (1) cabinet position from the opposite party was, for a while, a tradition. Olive branch. Spirit of bipartisanship, bringing the country together, bkah blah blah.

Because, in theory, the President is supposed the President of the whole country, not just the people that voted for him or her. I know the notion seems quaint now (and infuriates partisans), but it was a standard practice for a while.

Often as not, it was something boring like Transportation. Cf. Ray LaHood.

Sometimes it was just carryover, allowing a cabinet member to stay on.

No one has suggested appointing Republicans to multiple Cabinet positions. Nor has any serious person suggested that Republicans should have "a greater voice in government."

current season of Fargo seems relevant

Biden could let Barr stay on and see out his investigations.

Nor is the Republican cabinet official going to be Jeff Flake, it's going to be, at the most right wing, Bill Weld or Charlie Baker or one of the Ms. Whitmans. Maybe he'd go crazy and go all the way to Tommy Thompson.

Nor is the Republican cabinet official going to be Jeff Flake, it's going to be, at the most right wing, Bill Weld or Charlie Baker or one of the Ms. Whitmans. Maybe he'd go crazy and go all the way to Tommy Thompson.

Sorry.

A tradition in an era when liberal Republicans and segregationist southern Democrats existed is not the same as continuing it today, when it has been decades since any Republican existed who wasn't evil.

Obama had two Republican Secretaries of Defense, all while Mitch McConnell openly stated that his only goal in life was to obstruct Obama's very existence. That's what makes all of this VMIC.

Nor has any serious person suggested that Republicans should have "a greater voice in government."

4-8 Republican Senators could, right now, stop the Amy Coney Barrett nomination in its tracks. If they're unwilling to do that, why would you brag about bringing them into the governing coalition?

Welp, milo's consistent doubling down on, by insisting he made an accurate assessment of the Democratic Party's intentions toward lgbtq people, rather than making a dumb joke, finally earned him an FP from me.

seems like the kind of thing you could argue with him about (or ignore) instead of trying to have him banned.

To extend the quote (sorry now that I truncated it for brevity), the goalposts were originally at

govern as if Republicans deserve a greater voice in government than any actually Democratic constituency

Listen, the frustrating thing is that I AGREE that there are no more non-evil Republicans. I actively agree.

But if, as a strategic pre-election olive-branch move, somebody floats a Republican to be deputy undersecretary of soybean production, that does not constitute "greater voice in government" than prominent roles for actual Democrats at State, Defense, Justice, etc and OMG why do I bother

xp it's a good point. one of us really ought to try arguing with milo itt.

That Pinboard tweet is weird cause he’s implying—and I don’t agree with his assertion in the first place that Biden’s all nostalgia and no policy—it’s a bad thing...I expected that tweet to end with the phrase “and that’s why he’s behind.” Like it was dusted off from 2016 and changing Clinton to Biden. It’s just a weird tweet. And as someone else said, Trump isn’t even running this time on “I’ll do x y and z”. He’s running on how great everything was until the very unfair virus kneecapped him. He’s not even shouting about the wall this time.

I had never seen this clip before today, and now I’m sitting here wiping tears from my face. Joe Biden is a good man, and he is our only hope to heal and restore the soul of our nation. pic.twitter.com/l7IuFx75QV

— Michelle Kinney 🏴‍☠️ (@MichelleKinney) October 21, 2020

Like yeah, Biden is going to be a placeholder and not implement any radical change. That’s his appeal to a lot of people who aren’t us.

But if, as a strategic pre-election olive-branch move, somebody floats a Republican to be deputy undersecretary of soybean production

The last Democrat made Republicans the Secretaries of Defense and Transportation - these are not minor posts.

I'm pretty sure you grasp the rhetorical use of hyperbole but how many BLM activists are on Biden's transition team? How many Bernie supporters? Anita Dunn, PR flack for Harvey Weinstein - she has a spot. Cindy McCain has a spot. More Republicans, a lineup of private equity ghouls.

And if we can't read anything into his transition team, his public statements, the statements of people close to him, then we've closed off all possibility of criticism of Biden.

One of his points of bragging during the summer was about his success working on the 2010 budget compromise with McConnell - which was a campaign of cuts that could have cost his second term and made life worst for most Americans. If you want to realpolitik it that there was no other option, okay - but bragging about it as a marker of what bipartisanship can be?!

cost Obama his second term

If progressives want Joe Biden or any other Democratic president to make all the changes in this country and its government that we are seeking, then the voters must provide the party with the power to do it, which means better candidates, a better Congress and better national delegate who pass a better platform. We have Joe Biden today because progressives have not yet succeeded in capturing the party or winning the nation to our side. We made some good progress in that direction, but not nearly enough.

Democracy sucks when you can't get the votes.

I suspect that Democratic leadership is actually breathing a sigh of relief that ACB will sail through nomination, even without any of them embarrassing themselves by having to vote for her.

Not a one has the least bit of interest in a the Green Dream (“or whatever”), uni healthcare, or really anything that matches their base.

The great thing about upholding the “sanctity” of the Supreme Court, pretending that it’s not a purely political institution is that when it comes to challenging capital, votes don’t really matter. Cool!

xp None of that absolves Joe Biden or centrist Democrats, does it? If "you didn't get the votes, suxor" was the end of things, we wouldn't have several hundred thousand posts detailing the awfulness of Donald Trump over the last four years.

I honestly think if there were enough republicans that could sabotage her nomination (4?), Manchin or the like would step up to the plate and just couch it as the will of his WV constituents.

btw... instead of trying to have him banned

tbrr bans via FPs are brief respites and are meant as corrective admonitions for people who do not respond well to direct feedback on threads. milo won't listen to anyone and seems to think bending an inch is out of the question, because he is required to be always right. maybe he'd notice a ban. anyway, it won't happen until he collects a significant number of FPs.

xp None of that absolves Joe Biden or centrist Democrats, does it? If "you didn't get the votes, suxor" was the end of things, we wouldn't have several hundred thousand posts detailing the awfulness of Donald Trump over the last four years.

truth

green dream is a marijuana strand. pelosi was just saying "whatever" to that because she prefers indicas

None of that absolves Joe Biden or centrist Democrats, does it?

Absolution is beside the point. Making the right things happen is the whole point. And that takes votes. Getting votes is work. Making change happen is work. Taking the streets is work. A general strike is work. Revolution is work. Any path you choose is work. But complaining isn't work.

milo, do you think that if you were banned for refusing to listen, you might finally notice that it's not out of the question for you to bend an inch? and as a follow-up question, why are you required to always be right?

never give an inch
when you think you're wrong, change the subject to a new provocative idea instead
as everyone grapples with your past, create new things to grapple with

and whatever you do - never admit you're wrong

these are my community recommendations

the answer most likely will be along the lines of 'I didn't do anything wrong, do not need to change, because all my critics are wrong and I am not doing anything wrong and shouldn't have to change a thing.'

that's acceptable because it doesn't admit any wrongdoing, but what's lacking there is changing the subject to something new. say no - deny deny - but then pivot. NO, then PIVOT. NO, then PIVOT.

did i do anything wrong? no - but all i'm saying is voting doesn't really matter tho

To be clear I usually don't think milo is wrong. Frequently right! Just boring, because it's not actionable.

Aimless has the right of it. What are the intermediate steps between where we are and where we want to be? Hint: they are difficult.

Absolution is beside the point. Making the right things happen is the whole point

Nothing on ILX is actionable. The hundreds of thousands of posts about Donald Trump sucking did not change the world, did not come up with a new and effective way to take him down, did not even come up with a new line of criticism. This is somehow only a charge applied to various people who've offered up criticism from the left, whether they've been driven off or not.