Good thing there were two other vaccines that announced levels of success without that kind of fuck up.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 13:57 (three years ago) link
I’m personally excited that there seem to be 3 different effective vaccines!
― DJI, Tuesday, 24 November 2020 17:30 (three years ago) link
one for each arm, um, wait
― release the turkraken (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 17:31 (three years ago) link
TMI (too many innoculations)
― You will notice a small sink where your sofa once was. (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 17:39 (three years ago) link
it takes a lot to make a vax
― Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 18:01 (three years ago) link
hopefully this means they'll compete on price and not somehow cartelishly collude to fix prices
bwahahahahaha
― is right unfortunately (silby), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 18:04 (three years ago) link
When demand outstrips supply as much as it will in the case of these vaccines, price gouging will be an available option without recourse to a cartel. Congress could impose price controls, but if they do I will eat something improbable. The major restraint on pharma would be public outrage.
― The Solace of Fortitude (Aimless), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 18:25 (three years ago) link
The Biden Vaccine Riot, playing the Trocadero this Saturday night at 7
― Nhex, Tuesday, 24 November 2020 18:34 (three years ago) link
Interesting article today in NY Times about how the scientific evidence is piling up that the 614G strain was more transmissible than the original strain which would help to explain why it grown from being 1% of cases in January to 99% today. There doesn't seem to have been any research yet on whether it may be less deadly than the original strain and though the article doesn't go there, its interesting to speculate given how the 2nd wave seems to be less lethal.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 24 November 2020 18:40 (three years ago) link
Per dose in the U.S., Pfizer $20, Moderna $15, AstraZeneca under $4. All three say free for early recipients.
https://observer.com/2020/11/covid19-vaccine-price-pfizer-moderna-astrazeneca-oxford/
― by the light of the burning Citroën, Tuesday, 24 November 2020 18:48 (three years ago) link
xp: IMO more available testing (increasing the denominator) and better treatment protocols (early corticosteroids & anticlotting agents, proning and other efforts to delay intubation as long as possible) are enough to account for the drop in case fatality rates from the ~6% seen in March-May to the ~1.7% seen since.
― Advanced Doomscroller (Sanpaku), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 18:57 (three years ago) link
Jackson CEO Carlos Migoya confirms Pfizer expects to first produce 40M Covid-19 vaccine doses. At 2 doses/person, that's 20M initial immunizations. Miami-Dade expects to get 1M of those doses for 500K people, first to go to health workers, first responders and at-risk people.— Jesse Scheckner 🗞️ (@JesseScheckner) November 24, 2020
― Patriotic Goiter (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 19:36 (three years ago) link
shouldn't the distribution be based on the guiding hand of the free market?
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 24 November 2020 19:57 (three years ago) link
Fwiw Astra Zeneca claims to be selling the vaccine at cost. Not sure if that’s uk only. And not sure if r&d is included in the cost or it’s just manufacturing. But in any case I assume that’s why it’s the cheapest. (That and they saved money by not hiring someone who knows how to run a clinical trial.)
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 20:54 (three years ago) link
Having your company be behind one of humanities great achievements will probably be worth it.
― Bidh boladh a' mhairbh de 'n láimh fhalaimh (dowd), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 20:56 (three years ago) link
yeah was gonna say how long's it been since one of these companies got good press
― frogbs, Tuesday, 24 November 2020 20:58 (three years ago) link
AstraZeneca/Oxford's chimp adenovirus can be produced in cell culture, and that's a fairly mature technology used for flu vaccines and the like. The Pfizer and Modern mRNA vaccines are produced by cell-free mRNA synthesis. The capital and ingredient costs can be a lot higher.
mRNA synthesis: an enzymatic reaction involving linearization of pDNA and mixing with enzymes and nucleotides to allow mRNA linearization, transcription, and mRNA capping. mRNA purification: removal of enzymes, remaining nucleotides, pDNA and defective mRNA.mRNA concentration and final, sterile filtration.
― Advanced Doomscroller (Sanpaku), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 21:29 (three years ago) link
https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/23/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-is-70-effective-on-average-early-data-show/
If a final analysis, conducted after the inclusion of additional data, concludes the vaccine’s actual efficacy is around 70%, that could be a problem.“If it’s 70%, then we’ve got a dilemma,” said Fauci. “Because what are you going to do with the 70% when you’ve got two vaccines that are 95%? Who are you going to give a vaccine like that to?”The problem was also flagged in an analysis by Geoffrey Porges of the investment bank Leerink. “We believe that this product will never be licensed in the US,” Porges wrote.Fauci cautioned that full datasets — which the Oxford researchers said they intend to publish in a scientific journal — need to be pored over before conclusions can be drawn.“We’ve got to look at the analyses, the real granular data. It’s always tough when you’re looking at a press release to figure out what’s going on,” Fauci said.Other experts were more enthusiastic about the findings, suggesting the vaccine could be an important tool in low- and middle-income countries, where substantial production of the vaccine is expected to take place.
“If it’s 70%, then we’ve got a dilemma,” said Fauci. “Because what are you going to do with the 70% when you’ve got two vaccines that are 95%? Who are you going to give a vaccine like that to?”
The problem was also flagged in an analysis by Geoffrey Porges of the investment bank Leerink. “We believe that this product will never be licensed in the US,” Porges wrote.
Fauci cautioned that full datasets — which the Oxford researchers said they intend to publish in a scientific journal — need to be pored over before conclusions can be drawn.
“We’ve got to look at the analyses, the real granular data. It’s always tough when you’re looking at a press release to figure out what’s going on,” Fauci said.
Other experts were more enthusiastic about the findings, suggesting the vaccine could be an important tool in low- and middle-income countries, where substantial production of the vaccine is expected to take place.
I'd still rather be in the UK where everyone who wants it gets a 70% vaccine in what i assume will be reasonably well-organized fashion, vs the shitshow we'll get in the US next year
https://newrepublic.com/article/157704/coronavirus-vaccine-united-states-health-care
The U.S. simply does not have anything resembling the infrastructure necessary to ensure that everyone gets anything, including food or water or shelter, let alone something that requires access to a health care worker. To the extent that we have ever aspired to this sort of capability, those traditions have long eroded, worn down by our debased politics. We do not have a National Health Service–style system, which was able to produce a (poorly handled but nevertheless extant) list of patients who were at high risk for the coronavirus. My mother in Britain, who has received immunotherapy for lung cancer for the past two years, was on this list. She received a text from the government telling her to stay inside for 12 weeks, plus a phone call and two letters, which also advised her of government resources for food and help for the extremely vulnerable and suggested that she spend time with the windows open or sitting on her doorstep. America does not really have a health care “system” at all; it has a chaotic array of overlapping systems of private and public health financing, clinics, hospitals, and doctors. This lack of a single system will pose a challenge for administering a vaccine to the entire population. It’s not as simple as adding one more to the list of vaccines that children receive or distributing vaccinations at schools: People of all ages will need one. Can you name a physical institution that every American interacts with and has easy access to and that is prepared to distribute something universal like this? The Social Security office? The DMV? McDonald’s? (Starbucks and McDonald’s bathrooms are often the only place homeless people can go to freshen up, so it’s not like we’re not used to substituting chain restaurants for a society.) The closest thing might be the post office, currently in danger of being left to rot and die because of the virus. It may be that setting up post offices with government-employed pharmacists to distribute the vaccine would be our best bet, given the lack of universal access to medical settings.
America does not really have a health care “system” at all; it has a chaotic array of overlapping systems of private and public health financing, clinics, hospitals, and doctors. This lack of a single system will pose a challenge for administering a vaccine to the entire population. It’s not as simple as adding one more to the list of vaccines that children receive or distributing vaccinations at schools: People of all ages will need one. Can you name a physical institution that every American interacts with and has easy access to and that is prepared to distribute something universal like this? The Social Security office? The DMV? McDonald’s? (Starbucks and McDonald’s bathrooms are often the only place homeless people can go to freshen up, so it’s not like we’re not used to substituting chain restaurants for a society.) The closest thing might be the post office, currently in danger of being left to rot and die because of the virus. It may be that setting up post offices with government-employed pharmacists to distribute the vaccine would be our best bet, given the lack of universal access to medical settings.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 22:03 (three years ago) link
libraries?
― the serious avant-garde universalist right now (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 22:13 (three years ago) link
> I'd still rather be in the UK where everyone who wants it gets a 70% vaccine in what i assume will be reasonably well-organized fashion
ha ha
― koogs, Tuesday, 24 November 2020 22:14 (three years ago) link
I would suppose the only answer to that would depend entirely on availability. Obviously, the 95% vaccine should be prioritized for high risk populations, but there will be a long line of successively lower priority people who might benefit from a 70% vaccine if it were available to them much sooner. I'm sure the health professionals will figure it out.
― The Solace of Fortitude (Aimless), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 22:26 (three years ago) link
i walked into that one, and government services in the UK have room for improvement (lived there for 30 years). but this is one of those things like public transport in london/new york: there's lots of room for improvement but it sure beats the alternative. not sure if people in the UK realize how simply absent and/or maliciously badly run government services are in a lot of the rest of the world.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 22:26 (three years ago) link
I'm sure the health professionals will figure it out.
this seems like a job for public health administration in a government. would be cool if the US had one rather than relying on thousands of city/county/state-level services to figure it out, and for-profit entities to do the right thing.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 22:28 (three years ago) link
"I'm sure the health professionals will figure it out." -- the march 2020 federal plan for protective clothing and masks
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 22:33 (three years ago) link
well I trust my local health department more than I would trust a national one, if it existed
― is right unfortunately (silby), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 22:40 (three years ago) link
the march 2020 federal plan for protective clothing and masks
the health professionals wanted Trump to ask Congress for special appropriations to prepare for the virus in January. he couldn't be bothered and they had no power to bypass him.
― The Solace of Fortitude (Aimless), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 23:01 (three years ago) link
This country
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 23:11 (three years ago) link
LOL yes. Boris, Matt Hancock and the rest of these clowns haven't exactly covered themselves in glory so far.
― Naughty Boys Hoo! (Tom D.), Tuesday, 24 November 2020 23:12 (three years ago) link
There's over 5 billion in less developed nations who would be thrilled by a 70% effective vaccine that doesn't require extraordinary measures for distributi9on. Almost no dose of the AstraZenica/Oxford vaccine will go wasted.
― Advanced Doomscroller (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 00:46 (three years ago) link
The most interesting thing about the mRNA vaccines is they took a couple of days to design, many months to ramp production to scale. The fact that they worked is a epochal event. Once that mRNA vaccine manufacturing infrastructure is in place, there's no reason not to try vaccines against numerous nuisance infectious diseases or chronic diseases perpetuated by unfortunate signaling cascades. By 2030, I expect we'll see two dozen mRNA vaccines against both emerging infectious diseases and against dysregulated endogenous signaling. The past month has probably been like Christmas to experimental endocrinologists.
― Advanced Doomscroller (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 00:53 (three years ago) link
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 01:22 (three years ago) link
i think the latter are handicapped by the former.
3 examples off the top of my head:
100,000 test target met by putting 40k tests in the post hours before the deadline. (and those 100k tests didn't cover 100k people like they originally promised. my theory is that they counted each nostril separately)https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-100k-tests/
20 tonnes of ppe 'on its way' from turkey despite not being ordered yet. none of it met standards, none was used.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/delayed-plane-carrying-ppe-from-turkey-lands-in-uk-coronavirushttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/07/all-400000-gowns-flown-from-turkey-for-nhs-fail-uk-standards
track and trace and ppe contracts given without contest to large tory donors.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/09/uk-government-fails-to-publish-details-of-4bn-covid-contracts-with-private-firms
― koogs, Wednesday, 25 November 2020 09:45 (three years ago) link
forgot an obvious one - the chaos around testing - non-availability and long delays
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain/amid-covid-testing-chaos-uk-says-were-trying-to-fix-it-idUKKBN2670PB
― koogs, Wednesday, 25 November 2020 09:47 (three years ago) link
OTM. The politicians are lazy, incompetent and corrupt, they are in charge. The public health officials and civil servants are underfunded, undermined and demoralized, they take their orders from the politicians.
― Naughty Boys Hoo! (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 10:08 (three years ago) link
Real “transport in London is shit” stuff here.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 14:59 (three years ago) link
Yes, don't listen to us, we've only got a higher death rate than the US, we've got nothing to worry about.
― Naughty Boys Hoo! (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:21 (three years ago) link
weird ruler to be measuring one's dick by
― Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:26 (three years ago) link
I don't think you get the nuance behind that “transport in London is shit” crack.
― Naughty Boys Hoo! (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:27 (three years ago) link
yes it was so hard to parse
― Lover of Nixon (or LON for short) (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:28 (three years ago) link
So you parsed it was a shitty snide remark to make?
― Naughty Boys Hoo! (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:29 (three years ago) link
All because the poster had his nose out of joint for being pulled up on a stupid post they'd made?
― Naughty Boys Hoo! (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:30 (three years ago) link
I think getting into a "we're going fuck this up worse than you will" pissing match is incredibly fucking dumb for everyone involved
― DJP, Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:33 (three years ago) link
like congrats, the end result is that more of all of us die: you win
Only one person was doing that, that I can see.
― Naughty Boys Hoo! (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:35 (three years ago) link
Then... open your eyes
― DJP, Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:36 (three years ago) link
You're both arguing about how much worse everything is where you are than it is where the other one is and there's literally no point to it.
― DJP, Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:39 (three years ago) link
No we're not. koogs and I would never claim that things were worse in the UK, in terms of health provision, we were only countering the idea that everything was hunky dory over here and it'll be a breeze handing out vaccines to all and sundry, like candy. koogs gave a whole shopping list of reasons why this was an overly rose-tinted view of the UK. That's all.
― Naughty Boys Hoo! (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:44 (three years ago) link
caek coming back with that 'transport in london is shit' jibe was below the belt
― Naughty Boys Hoo! (Tom D.), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:45 (three years ago) link
League table of shitty national pandemic responses:1. US2. Brazil3. Mexico4. UK5. Belgium, apparently
Certain outliers like Russia and Iran lack robust data for inclusion here.
― a combination no self-respecting gunter would have trouble remembering (Matt #2), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:48 (three years ago) link
we were only countering the idea that everything was hunky dory over here and it'll be a breeze handing out vaccines to all and sundry
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 25 November 2020 15:49 (three years ago) link