You don't have to look hard. The filmed concert from the 1989 (?) tour that was up on Apple Music at the time included all kinds of shit like videos of her celebrity friends like Selena Gomez talking about baking cookies at TS's house, TS telling the audience they were all her personal friends, bringing other celebrity friends on stage to meet the audience.I don’t watch that stuff! Maybe I’m the weird one here – but I consider myself a fan of her music, buy her records, etc., and I don’t engage in any of that.
― good karma, my aesthetic (morrisp), Sunday, 13 December 2020 17:58 (three years ago) link
(I did try watching a little of the thing on Disney+, where she sits around talking about the songs, and I thought it was boring as shit)
― good karma, my aesthetic (morrisp), Sunday, 13 December 2020 18:01 (three years ago) link
Plastic Ono Band is probably the first album that demanded to be taken as a "real" statement on the artist's life, with the assumption that the audience is ready to be fascinated. There was also the paradoxical element that Lennon was tearing down the artifice of celebrity, which I don't think anyone says of Taylor Swift.
― Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 13 December 2020 18:08 (three years ago) link
plastic ono band is a good call in that it operates under the assumption that the you know a lot about lennon's life, childhood, the whole break up of the beatles saga etc
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 13 December 2020 18:12 (three years ago) link
I mean, projecting sincerity, direct personal connection, and autobiographical expression have afaict been a part of TS's deal all along so it doesn't seem unfair to critique her on those grounds.
― The New York Times' effect on man (Sund4r), Sunday, 13 December 2020 18:22 (three years ago) link
people have talked in similar ways about Beethoven for 200 years. this is just certain romantic ideas about art and heroism adapted for a neoliberal clickbait era isn't it
― Left, Sunday, 13 December 2020 18:34 (three years ago) link
it's generally obnoxious but a lot more so if you don't like the artist to start with. I don't get the need for all this analysis to justify the initial distaste. reminds me of the interminable debates about M.I.A. 15 years ago, except Taylor is actually popular so the discourse around her is harder to avoid
― Left, Sunday, 13 December 2020 18:43 (three years ago) link
I don't get the need for all this analysis to justify the initial distaste
― brimstead, Sunday, 13 December 2020 18:47 (three years ago) link
lol sorry
projecting sincerity, direct personal connection, and autobiographical expression have afaict been a part of TS's deal all along so it doesn't seem unfair to critique her on those grounds.This seems common to so many singer-songwriters though. I just take at face value that they are doing that, and then it’s a matter of whether the music connects with me or not. That’s just me personally.
― good karma, my aesthetic (morrisp), Sunday, 13 December 2020 18:53 (three years ago) link
TS: the smugness of dismissing music out of hand because you supposedly dislike being ‘challenged’ vs the smugness of writing a bible-length theoretical epic that carefully explains why Tay-tay sux.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 13 December 2020 18:55 (three years ago) link
No better thread to type it, I guess: every time I see people fawning over a new Arthur Russell thing that has been unearthed, I wanna scream we get it. you like your music fags to be dead. it makes the music so much more meaningful. thank you for reminding me. I feel like you're just rubbing it in my face at this point. "oh, haven't you heard the new Arthur? also, why don't you die? die, die, die."
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 13 December 2020 19:46 (three years ago) link
I don’t smugness inherent in either of those things tbh
― brimstead, Sunday, 13 December 2020 20:44 (three years ago) link
xp
I def agree, my post was facetious more than anything.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 13 December 2020 20:46 (three years ago) link
No better thread to type it, I guess: every time I see people fawning over a new Arthur Russell thing that has been unearthed, I wanna scream we get it. you like your music fags to be dead. it makes the music so much more meaningful. thank you for reminding me. I feel like you're just rubbing it in my face at this point. "oh, haven't you heard the new Arthur? also, why don't you die? die, die, die."― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, December 13, 2020 11:46 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, December 13, 2020 11:46 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
A million times this.
― "Bi" Dong A Ban He Try (the table is the table), Sunday, 13 December 2020 20:47 (three years ago) link
And I too am a huge fan and rinse every new thing that is unearthed!
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 13 December 2020 20:50 (three years ago) link
I honestly never thought of it like that, and although I'm really glad Knudson is doing that work I can see the point
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, 13 December 2020 21:18 (three years ago) link
but y'know dead artists sell, that's certainly true across the board
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, 13 December 2020 21:19 (three years ago) link
My thing with him, which obviously is coming from a less invested place but nonetheless, is how people seem really intent on reinventing an artist who was known as much for making (brilliant) dance music as an indie singer songwriter
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Sunday, 13 December 2020 21:20 (three years ago) link
well he was really fuckin good at both things tbh
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, 13 December 2020 21:22 (three years ago) link
I think Sault are good. Don’t have strong feelings abt it but do think it’s a bit 30 something record collector to make them the center of your musical universe but there’s nothing wrong w that per se and it’s a really well done version of it ? Idk
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Sunday, 13 December 2020 21:23 (three years ago) link
the LCD Soundsystem of the 2020s
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, 13 December 2020 21:24 (three years ago) link
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, December 13, 2020 3:22 PM (nineteen seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink
Sure (tho I’d hesitate to pigeonhole his non dance work as “indie singer songwriter) but only one of those gets a real commercial emphasis (i guess ? Because that was what was on the tapes, regardless if there are good reasons for it or not it feels like it’s remaking his story a bit to me)
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Sunday, 13 December 2020 21:24 (three years ago) link
well there's also been releases like "Corn" and "Calling Out Of Context" that were "on the tapes" so idk about that
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, 13 December 2020 21:31 (three years ago) link
and he played in The Necessaries! ffs
sorry for derail
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, 13 December 2020 21:32 (three years ago) link
he was good at everything basically
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 13 December 2020 22:12 (three years ago) link
Tbh his Echo demos are super-stunning, very pleased to have them in my earholes
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 13 December 2020 22:16 (three years ago) link
I was more just... surprised when I got Love is Overtaking Me, like no fuckin way this guy who was so good at dance music and experimental (modern classical adjacent? but basically the world of echo type stuff) could be that good at singer songwriter stuff....I almost kept thinking I was fooling myself, but those songs are just really good songs
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 13 December 2020 22:20 (three years ago) link
this thread is getting alarmingly positive
― Lily Dale, Sunday, 13 December 2020 22:22 (three years ago) link
lol otm
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, 13 December 2020 22:27 (three years ago) link
here
Ok . MORE Arthur Russell (But This Is Great)
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, 13 December 2020 22:29 (three years ago) link
this thread is making me feel like I have a moral obligation to listen to Sault
― howls of non-specificity (sleeve), Sunday, 13 December 2020 22:32 (three years ago) link
The constant unearthing of Arthur Russell out-takes and demos and rarities feels more like opportunistic cash-ins than anything, even when the stuff is good the status of it makes me feel a bit uneasy
― boxedjoy, Sunday, 13 December 2020 23:18 (three years ago) link
why?
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 13 December 2020 23:19 (three years ago) link
https://www-nytimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/arts/music/arthur-russell-archives-new-york-public-library.amp.html?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16079016016183&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2016%2F05%2F29%2Farts%2Fmusic%2Farthur-russell-archives-new-york-public-library.html
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Sunday, 13 December 2020 23:22 (three years ago) link
oh man - don’t let sic see that url!! %2Farts%2Fmusic
― good karma, my aesthetic (morrisp), Sunday, 13 December 2020 23:31 (three years ago) link
I don't believe he would have wanted people to hear every version of every song. I certainly wouldn't be thrilled to have the first drafts of my writing or my music published before I've revised and improved them.
― boxedjoy, Sunday, 13 December 2020 23:54 (three years ago) link
sorry on my phone!
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 14 December 2020 00:17 (three years ago) link
I think Mariah Carey is very successful at this, to such an extent that I would bet a lot of people don't even know she writes her own material; they likely just assume that she has squads of contributing songwriters like every other giant pop icon.
― maura, Monday, 14 December 2020 01:53 (three years ago) link
and hey i speak from experience, i called her manufactured when i reviewed emotions in my high school paper
― maura, Monday, 14 December 2020 01:55 (three years ago) link
would be really interested to hear which male artists are viewed as “insincere” though!!
― maura, Monday, 14 December 2020 01:56 (three years ago) link
yeah this assumption has nothing to do with misogyny or anything
Sure, misogyny, general critical misconceptions/assumptions about pop and how it's made/how it works, etc., etc., but it's also her choice from a marketing/image management standpoint. How much does she press the issue in interviews? She's only really brought it up recently, with her autobiography. She has not gone out of her way over the last 30 years to paint herself as part of the singer-songwriter tradition the way Taylor Swift does.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 14 December 2020 01:56 (three years ago) link
Tom Waits and David Bowie, to name two.
― but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 14 December 2020 01:59 (three years ago) link
This thread is like the ghost of ILM circa 2001, wandering around moaning and being wrong.
― Soundslike, Monday, 14 December 2020 02:01 (three years ago) link
_would be really interested to hear which male artists are viewed as “insincere” though!!_Tom Waits and David Bowie, to name two.
― maura, Monday, 14 December 2020 02:08 (three years ago) link
_yeah this assumption has nothing to do with misogyny or anything_Sure, misogyny, general critical misconceptions/assumptions about pop and how it's made/how it works, etc., etc., but it's also her choice from a marketing/image management standpoint. How much does she press the issue in interviews? She's only really brought it up recently, with her autobiography. She has not gone out of her way over the last 30 years to paint herself as part of the singer-songwriter tradition the way Taylor Swift does.
― maura, Monday, 14 December 2020 02:09 (three years ago) link
someone like Ariana Grande who strikes me as very much a curated product - like, Ariana writes a tweet about a relationship, and her team of songwriters writes a song about the tweet which is then seen as intensely personal and autobiographicalEven a trenchant dis like this fails get the chronology right (the song was written & recorded long before the tweet).
― good karma, my aesthetic (morrisp), Monday, 14 December 2020 02:11 (three years ago) link
Oops! I should really research my trenchant disses more carefully. Thanks for correcting me.
― Lily Dale, Monday, 14 December 2020 02:14 (three years ago) link
No idea whether the critical discourse bears this out at all, but a name that spontaneously springs to mind is… Kenny G.
― pomenitul, Monday, 14 December 2020 02:14 (three years ago) link