outbreak! (ebola, sars, coronavirus, etc)

Both of them are still ill enough so that they’re working reduced hours.

I think Lily is right when she says upthread it’s not dissimilar to post-viral syndrome too to an extent but that it being more widely acknowledged, understood and hopefully treated is a good thing

otm

Xpost - I think that’s mostly how these vaccines work? They don’t necessarily mean you won’t get it (though there is less of a chance) the big thing is that if/when you do they lessen the severity significantly and you won’t get super ill or need hospitalization.

― Benson and the Jets (ENBB), Thursday, January 28, 2021 7:27 AM (twenty-one minutes ago)

this is true, I took froggy's question to mean what would happen if you happened to get covid and the vaccine on the same day, in which case you wouldn't have had time to develop an immune response yet

Ahhhh ok I wasn’t reading it in relation to his question before that. There’s been stories about people that’s happened to but I think Kevin’s right in that they prob don’t have enough data to know if someone who catches it at the same time or right after being vaccinated will have less severe symptoms.

can’t believe the Lancet publishing this worst case scenario tabloid hyperbole

6-month consequences of #COVID-19 in patients discharged from hospital: a cohort study. Six months after illness onset, 76% (1265 of 1655) reported at least one symptom that persisted, with fatigue or muscle weakness being the most frequent. https://t.co/G7ENUDUeuI
— Patrik Brundin (@BrundinPatrik) January 16, 2021
― scampish inquisition (gyac), Thursday, 28 January 2021 10:51 (two hours ago) link

That would be 76% of hospitalized cases, which make up about 3.5% of COVID cases. So about 2.8% of COVID cases. But having fatigue six months after being hospitalized with a severe case of a virus doesn’t necessarily mean you have a permanent disability. Most likely not.

The evidence is more on the side of my argument than not, tbh

Pneumonia also can have long term effects on hospitalized older patients.

O_O

It tends to kill them.

Pneumonia also can have long term effects on hospitalized older patients.

How is this possibly helping your argument that studies/coverage indicating the same can happen with covid are overstated?

can’t believe the Lancet publishing this worst case scenario tabloid hyperbole

🐦[6-month consequences of #COVID🕸-19 in patients discharged from hospital: a cohort study. Six months after illness onset, 76% (1265 of 1655) reported at least one symptom that persisted, with fatigue or muscle weakness being the most frequent. https://t.co/G7ENUDUeuI🕸
— Patrik Brundin (@BrundinPatrik) January 16, 2021🕸]🐦

You’re going to be shocked when I tell you this, badg, but Andrew Wakefield was a doctor.

How is this possibly helping your argument that studies/coverage indicating the same can happen with covid are overstated?

― Smokahontas and John Spliff (PBKR), Thursday, January 28, 2021 8:50 AM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Coverage is making it sound like COVID is some kind of never before seen monster virus that destroys the lungs and hearts of otherwise healthy people even when they have mild or no symptoms.

You’re right, it’s all a big deal over nothing.

I don't understand your end game here, man alive.

The fact that The Lancet is not infallible and has fucked up in the past doesn't mean its credibility is nil.

I found this article reassuring: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/giving-people-more-freedom-whole-point-vaccines/617829/

Yeah, someone linked to that yesterday, it raises some good points. Of course, we have to figure out how to actually get the vaccine into folks' arms before we worry about what comes next. We have a tremendously long road ahead of us just to get there.

COVID is a never before seen monster virus, though. Like, the fact that it's new is why we're in this situation.

I don't really know how this all works, but as I mentioned upthread, this does happen to people after other viruses as well, it's just more rare. It doesn't seem at all surprising to me that a new virus running through a population with no immunity would have more of the same after-affects that are associated with other viruses.

How is this possibly helping your argument that studies/coverage indicating the same can happen with covid are overstated?

― Smokahontas and John Spliff (PBKR), Thursday, January 28, 2021 8:50 AM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Coverage is making it sound like COVID is some kind of never before seen monster virus that destroys the lungs and hearts of otherwise healthy people even when they have mild or no symptoms.

But not studies, correct?

One thing I find intriguing is how much attention UK media has devoted to long covid compared to other countries. I can't speak for the US, but there's very little about this in Canada, even less in Quebec, and almost nothing in France and Romania. This is gonna sound weird, but… kudos to UK media?

6-month consequences of #COVID-19 in patients discharged from hospital

If you were admitted to a hospital, then your symptoms were severe, not mild or non-existent. People who can't figure that out have spent exactly two second or less thinking about what they are being told.

I've seen plenty about long covid in French media fwiw.

Interesting. My sense is that there have been fewer articles about this in Le Monde and Libération, say, than in The Guardian.

Possibly because our Prime Minister has been looking like death warmed up since he recovered from his bout of the 'rona?

xp that may be, I don't read Libé (though I follow their headlines on social media but that's an algorithmic crapshoot). But I follow a lot of French media on social media & like maybe through France Inter or something like that I keep seeing things about it

like for example https://www.futura-sciences.com/sante/actualites/pandemie-covid-long-sont-personnes-plus-risque-82241/

this is true, I took froggy's question to mean what would happen if you happened to get covid and the vaccine on the same day, in which case you wouldn't have had time to develop an immune response yet

Good to know!

xp

what’s the latest on immunity? this seems promising??!

https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/01/06/1015822/covid-19-immunity-likely-lasts-for-years/

in laws got the fauci ouchy part 1 at dodger stadium last night. they're the reason we're isolating to the extent we have been. absolutely cannot wait to lick some subway poles.

Two applications of 70% alcohol solution immediately prior should make it safe enough to lick any subway poles you find tempting. No need to thank me. It's a service I am happy to perform.

xps to TH iirc this is the case with SARS, they were finding people with B and T cells responding to it like 17 years after the original outbreak

But T cell studies allow for a substantially different, more optimistic, interpretation. In the Singapore study, for example, SARS-CoV-1 reactive T cells were found in SARS patients 17 years after infection. “Our findings also raise the possibility that long lasting T cells generated after infection with related viruses may be able to protect against, or modify the pathology caused by, infection with SARS-CoV-2,”8 the investigators wrote.

Aimless, can I use a mixer (e.g., tonic water) or do I have to drink it straight?

Thx in advance

It should be 150 proof and applied straight. No mixer.

Another good vaccine coming on-stream, from Novavax

Breaking: Novavax Covid vaccine shows 89% efficacy in UK trials. Half the cases on the trial were the new ‘Kent’variant so this is first vaccine to show it is effective against the new more contagious variant

— Fergus Walsh (@BBCFergusWalsh) January 28, 2021

Seemingly only "pretty good" (60% or so) against the SA variant. They're working on boosters for that, though (as are the others)

feels like I'm reading about more contagious strains popping up everywhere. the SA variant does seem worrisome though

I just want to get my first shot

Who's that mutant viral gent
Who ran amok in Kent
Lately it's been overheard in Mayfair

Holy shit, I knew vaccine distribution sucked in Illinois, but was not prepared to see how truly abysmal it is locally. We’re supposed to be into phase 1b, which is supposed to be healthcare workers, frontline workers and people over 65. Our city just sent out an email that said they only have enough for people over the age of 83.

It appears my pessimism is well warranted and June of 2022 is a pipe dream, at best.

I’m just really struggling with the disconnect between what Biden is saying and what we’re hearing locally. Biden says there will be enough to get everyone who wants it vaccinated by the end of the summer. Yet Pritzker said just this week that there is “no way” everyone gets vaccinated by then. One of them has to be wrong.

Depressing af that multiple new more contagious strains and possibly a vaccine resistant one are popping up right when mass vaccinations are starting. Guess they brought back the same writing team for 2021 etc etc

Also: why does it feel like suddenly restrictions are getting loosened in the US just as swathes of Europe are going on lockdown? Isn’t it kind of inevitable that the new strains will be brush fires here too any day? Or is there some reason why not?

amnesia

I don’t know, but I’m feeling more despair than I have in many, many months. After seeing how badly the US has fucked up since mid-March I shouldn’t be at all surprised that the vaccine rollout is also an utter catastrophe and failure on all levels.

I mean mutations were always expected, it was mutating last year too but the variance wasn't that significant in terms of transmissibility mortality so they didn't get as much press. that finally changed, but right now the SA is the only one that they seem to be thinking might need a boost.

tbh if a vaccine is 60% good against the South African, no, that's not great, but it's a good starting point, and I'm assuming the boosters can improve that a bit.

the other strains like the UK strain/etc seem to be well matched by the vaccines. i'm nervous of course but the main thing I am worried about is most countries finding a way to get the vaccines into people's arms, and at least in the US it's nice to see competent people in charge even if we aren't even remotely fucking close to where we should be there, and probably won't be for a good long time.

I think there were questions in the study too about whether 50-60% was the true efficacy against the SA version, as that wasn't the primary thing they were measuring.

i think Biden's end of summer prediction is a wee bit over-optimistic and I kinda want him to tamp down those expectations a bit as I don't have a huge degree of confidence in that (at least not yet). health officials don't seem as bullish on those prospects.

but idk. I think one thing we've learned is predicting this pandemic has been next to impossible. I don't think many of us thought almost a year ago that we'd still be dealing with this shit TO THIS DEGREE a year later. I sure didn't.

I guess I should only blame myself for getting my hopes up. I kinda thought that seeing people actually get vaccinated would represent some sort of light at the end of the tunnel, but it turns out we aren’t even fucking close. Which, sucks, but lesson learned. I’m going to work on not foolishly putting my hope in a vaccine that isn’t going to save us.

I’m feeling more despair

we know