going to wait for the source hawk to leap on man alive’s “wusa9” link with the same speed they did the Lancet btw
― scampish inquisition (gyac), Friday, 29 January 2021 15:49 (three years ago) link
Merkel's taking the same stance, right?
2xp
― pomenitul, Friday, 29 January 2021 15:51 (three years ago) link
wonder if that rumoured lost Peel session will ever surface
― Next Time Might Be Hammer Time (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 29 January 2021 15:51 (three years ago) link
Thankfully, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) has approved the AZ/Oxford jab for all age groups past 18.
― pomenitul, Friday, 29 January 2021 15:54 (three years ago) link
I was going to say, the EMA approved it.
― scampish inquisition (gyac), Friday, 29 January 2021 15:59 (three years ago) link
Tbf the Hundred Years' War was never not a misnomer.
― pomenitul, Friday, 29 January 2021 16:00 (three years ago) link
I don’t understand the difference between saying it’s all good for a 64 year old and 65 year olds shouldn’t get it at all tbh
― scampish inquisition (gyac), Friday, 29 January 2021 16:01 (three years ago) link
I guess they need a cut-off point, which is bound to seem a bit arbitrary.
― pomenitul, Friday, 29 January 2021 16:02 (three years ago) link
My sister-in-law is a reporter/occasional anchor on WUSA, cool to see her colleagues’ work get mentioned
― Hello Nice FBI Lady (DJP), Friday, 29 January 2021 16:03 (three years ago) link
My sister’s friend - a healthy woman in her 20s - was hospitalised with covid last year and is now registered disabled & doctors have told her she is likely to be living with the effects for the rest of her life. My sister told me she can’t take a shower without needing to lie down after. She posted on fb from the hospital a few months after being diagnosed, her lungs were operating at half capacity and her O2 dropped about 10% when she walked any distance.Obviously this is not the norm for a fit and healthy young person - *as every single person you are talking to knows*, majority are mild or asymptomatic - but man alive, claiming that you are just talking about “some media reports” does feel like goalpost shifting when you were directly responding to gyac’s post that simply (correctly) said that lots of ppl will suffer heart & lung damage with a post downplaying that. If all you were arguing against is the notion that mild or asymptomatic cases will result in organ damage, something nobody itt said or thinks, then fine I guess? But that’s not what it looked like esp coming hot on the heels of ridiculous horseshit like “I think we have a milder variant because nobody I know has been hospitalised lately”
― Yelp for gyros (wins), Friday, 29 January 2021 16:07 (three years ago) link
“Today everything suggests that it is almost ineffective for those over 65, and some say over 60.”
"Many people say ~insert lie~"
Is a very Trumpian formation
― new variant (onimo), Friday, 29 January 2021 16:14 (three years ago) link
yo Clay just a shoutout to say I'm glad you're here, and thanks for those posts
― Überschadenfreude (sleeve), Friday, 29 January 2021 16:26 (three years ago) link
sorry folks but macron is, well, he's not right, because the trial was so badly run that no one really knows if the AZ vaccine works for 65+, but there is basically no evidence that either way. which is not to say it doesn't. it would be a surprise. but "no evidence either way" is not the stuff agency approvals are made of, and its honestly bordering on reckless (like so many things about the UK respone) to approve it.
the german report on their (non)approval breaks this down. they enrolled too few old people in the trial. they got one case of covid among 300ish 65+ people in both the control arm and the treatment arm. the vaccine is somewhere between -1405% effective and +94%. i.e. they are guessing.
Here it is: the crucial table showing Germany's calculations on the AstraZeneca vaccine's efficacy in over-65s. And good God, look at that confidence interval! For over-65s there was only one infection in the treatment group and one in the placebo group. pic.twitter.com/edUPhaL7sS— Oliver Moody (@olivernmoody) January 28, 2021
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 29 January 2021 17:17 (three years ago) link
nothing magic happens when you turn 65, and it would be a surprise if it didn't work, but they don't have the right data to say.
in an ideal world you wouldn't give healthy people a vaccination (which is not zero risk) unless you knew for sure that it worked. if we weren't in pandemic this vaccine would not be in use anywhere in the world. even in the "let's just do it an be legends" countries.
but we're in a pandemic so fair enough.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 29 January 2021 17:31 (three years ago) link
xp appreciate the “can’t guarantee based on lack of data” but think Daniel Howdon is otm both itt
The 8% story about the AZ vaccine was I guess based on this 6.3% number here, the central estimate for an effectiveness calculation based on one event being observed from ~300 in each treatment arm. In a way, less stupid than the previous speculation; in another, much, much more. pic.twitter.com/JgP2TuwYoN— Daniel Howdon (@danielhowdon) January 28, 2021
jfc this might look less unhinged but it's probably going to cause much, much more harm than Trump's bizarre ramblings about "getting light inside the body"— Daniel Howdon (@danielhowdon) January 29, 2021
― scampish inquisition (gyac), Friday, 29 January 2021 17:55 (three years ago) link
― scampish inquisition (gyac), Friday, January 29, 2021 11:01 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
the cutoff is arbitrary, but the idea that vaccines are less effective in older people is solidly grounded. it’s true of virtually any vaccine afaik and there was suggestion of this with the pfizer/moderna data iirc though the numbers of patients >65 in those trials were (regrettably) small and therefore the estimates are less precise
that said even if they are less effective on an individual basis, the risk older people face is so much higher that prioritizing them is stillimportant
― k3vin k., Friday, 29 January 2021 17:57 (three years ago) link
But the EU have approved the AZ vaccine?
― Waterloo Subset (Tom D.), Friday, 29 January 2021 18:05 (three years ago) link
Oh, I see, the Germans haven't. I forgot the German and the French are allowed to do what they like in the EU.
― Waterloo Subset (Tom D.), Friday, 29 January 2021 18:08 (three years ago) link
xps ty k3vin, that makes sense to me
― scampish inquisition (gyac), Friday, 29 January 2021 18:13 (three years ago) link
AFAICT, howdon is saying "the best guess _based only on that data_ is that it barely works for 65+, but that's probably not a very good guess because the samples were tiny so the uncertainties are huge". that's true?
& also that Macron’s intervention isn’t going to do anything great for French citizens already sceptical of vaccines
honestly i kind of feel like this is on the people at AZ and oxford who fucked up the trial so badly that they only saw one (1) (one!!!!!!!!) case among unvaccinated people in the most vulnerable population (this of course isn't the only way they fucked it up, there was the whole half dose thing, small samples, etc).
i know the politics of vaccines in france are particularly weird, and maybe the right move here is to say "this vaccine would be approved even if there weren't a raging pandemic" but ... well, that _is_ a lie.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 29 January 2021 18:27 (three years ago) link
i should be clear, i think approving AZ and getting it into arms is the right thing to do. it's undergone more than enough testing to know it's safe, it would be surprising if the efficacy for over 65s really were 7% or whatever, people are dying right now, and we're short of vaccine supply.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 29 January 2021 18:52 (three years ago) link
Great shitpost
It is quite funny to hear senior officials from Brazil, India and US talk about freedom and democracy 10 times in a five minute speech. They happen to be the 3 countries with the most Covid-19 cases in the world. Too free?— Chen Weihua (陈卫华) (@chenweihua) January 29, 2021
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 29 January 2021 18:56 (three years ago) link
lol, he is the guy who called marsha blackburn "a lifetime bitch" i'm pretty sure
― superdeep borehole (harbl), Friday, 29 January 2021 19:02 (three years ago) link
that "China state-affiliated media" tag sure is something
― Canon in Deez (silby), Friday, 29 January 2021 19:03 (three years ago) link
It's true, we could use some less inhibited strong men to lead us – Bolsonaro, Modi and Trump did not go far enough. Unless…
https://interactives.lowyinstitute.org/features/covid-performance/#politics
― pomenitul, Friday, 29 January 2021 19:08 (three years ago) link
vaccine approval for kids may be closer than i realised (bit in here about how these trials work too) https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-anthony-fauci-coronavirus-pandemic-infectious-diseases-coronavirus-vaccine-47af1ca6b75a2cedaac7923b7b084404
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 29 January 2021 21:37 (three years ago) link
i thought it was like "we have to do another 30k person trial but with kids" but it sounds like they set the bar lower (is it safe, does it work better than chance), which requires a smaller sample. but they do a kind of a ladder of trials going down the age groups, which makes things take longer.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Friday, 29 January 2021 21:39 (three years ago) link
For anyone interested in long covid, it’s the focus of the latest briefing by the Independent SAGE panel as they’ve just published a report on it. Worth a look:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5YRGAk0RdoFirst 14 mins are uk-specific weekly stats then main discussion starts. I like these briefings, they do a good job of communicating the concerns of scientists to a lay audience and go into what gets (quite deliberately) left out of the government messaging. (For non-uk ppl, indie sage is a counterpart to the government’s scientific advisory group for emergencies that was set up due to concerns about the lack of transparency and, well, non-independence of sage) (also for non-uk ppl: play this video for blood sausage content like “there are people wandering the aisles of Tesco with diarrhoea and covid toes”) Report here: https://www.independentsage.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Long-COVID_FINAL.pdf
― Yelp for gyros (wins), Saturday, 30 January 2021 10:34 (three years ago) link
Indie SAGE: a mix of MHRA and Public Health England with the swagger of Chris Whitty
― ukania west (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 30 January 2021 11:26 (three years ago) link
Indie Saga: the demo who will be taking cruise holidays in a couple of decades
― Yelp for gyros (wins), Saturday, 30 January 2021 11:31 (three years ago) link
I want to echo Clay in a slightly different way...a few of my best friends haven't really left their houses in months, haven't seen anyone except from their porches, etc. That we're going to be in this sort of state for another 6 months to a year is fucked up, and I don't blame you for any despair.
I'll also say that as someone who had stage IIIb cancer, major surgery, and a huge new weird body thing to deal with, emerging into a pandemic has not been ideal. 2020 was the year I was supposed to see all the friends and places I missed when I couldn't in 2019.
So please, vent and share yr despair, yes. Also know that it actually can still be a distinct pleasure to be alive in this time-- do whatever you can to find that center, and try to operate from there. Even I lose focus on this at times, but it has helped me immensely.
― The return of our beloved potatoes (the table is the table), Saturday, 30 January 2021 13:11 (three years ago) link
They're vaxxed.They're vaxxed.My folks are fully vaxxed.
*Whistles*
https://i.ibb.co/HB2WMxj/FB-IMG-1612027039115.jpg
― if Spaghetti-Os had whammy bars (Neanderthal), Saturday, 30 January 2021 17:19 (three years ago) link
Seminole County FL has their shit together. They were inviting people with later appointments in early as they're AHEAD of schedule.
We got called before we were done filling out paperwork
― if Spaghetti-Os had whammy bars (Neanderthal), Saturday, 30 January 2021 17:20 (three years ago) link
congrats!
Here's hoping Miami-Dade gets their shit together.
― meticulously crafted, socially responsible, morally upsta (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 30 January 2021 17:23 (three years ago) link
'Grats, that's excellent news.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 30 January 2021 17:24 (three years ago) link
Wonderful to hear.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 30 January 2021 17:30 (three years ago) link
Congrats Neanderthal, great news indeed.
― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Saturday, 30 January 2021 19:39 (three years ago) link
I am really glad to hear this, neanderthal! My mom is supposed to get her first dose tomorrow (congregate senior living facility in Indianapolis).
― Jaq, Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:27 (three years ago) link
congrats caveman and extended cavefamily!
"covid toes"?
― That's not really my scene (I'm 41) (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:40 (three years ago) link
covid toe is real ppl, wake the fuck up
― Yelp for gyros (wins), Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:42 (three years ago) link
My mom gets her second dose this week but the email they sent that has to be printed was ridiculous - most of it was a 8000px wide image (which includes the barcode that's actually necessary). If she didn't have me to fix it, not sure how that printing would have happened.
― Joe Biden Stan Account (milo z), Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:42 (three years ago) link
They’re wandering the aisles of Tesco for Christ’s sake
― Yelp for gyros (wins), Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:43 (three years ago) link
Short for covid cameltoe iirc.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:44 (three years ago) link
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/01/health/coronavirus-covid-toe.html
― Yelp for gyros (wins), Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:44 (three years ago) link
wow, i thought i had kept up with news on this but that is the first time i've heard of "covid toes" and that article is from May! i don't know anything.
― That's not really my scene (I'm 41) (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:48 (three years ago) link
I've also spent too much time reading up on this shit and I'd never heard of it before today either.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:49 (three years ago) link
Nobody wants to talk about the toes
― Yelp for gyros (wins), Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:50 (three years ago) link
I suspect a cover up, the media are in the pocket of Big Toe
It's true, they're toeing the line.
― pomenitul, Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:51 (three years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UgRQ9yPaIw
― if Spaghetti-Os had whammy bars (Neanderthal), Saturday, 30 January 2021 20:57 (three years ago) link