Madness: Classic Or Dud?

Cosign the DVD commentary

Been revisiting Madness - singles are still great, but in terms of albums, the debut One Step Beyond... was the masterpiece for me. I actually couldn't get into Rise and Fall - though I appreciate the lyrics and ambition, musically a lot it just didn't work for me. I'll hang on to it and revisit it again, but at the moment, some of it sounds overly arranged with very little that's melodically engaging. "Tomorrow's (Just Another Day)" and "Our House" were excellent though.

I realised a few months ago that The Sun & The Rain is one of my favourite songs, full stop.

Rise & Fall has always been my favourite, though latterly Keep Moving has definitely creapt up to neck and neck. The Liberty Of Norton Folgate is absolutely their 21st Century masterpiece, and I think it stands up there with their very best without any caveats, the title track especially. Indeed, I think the post-reunion albums have been incredibly strong, and packed with deep cuts. When I was working on the reissues last year, stuff like this absolute gem would regularly get lodged in my head, and refuse to shift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1B2YxNgNc

The Sun & The Rain is absolutely one of their greatest. I used to sing it to my daughter at bed time - it's magnificent.

I realised a few months ago that The Sun & The Rain is one of my favourite songs, full stop.

A few years ago I also realised this

Were I to able to compile such a list, then a top 50 song ever of the all times

.. and from reports of their show in halifax last week, it still is featured in their live sets.

My first true musical love as I'm sure I've said here and elsewhere; I do believe a part of the appeal was how they seemed (truthfully or not) to be a nactual ~gang~ (yknow like the Beatles appear in Hard Day's Night etc).

A few years ago I read some biography, and loved a bit about their particular deal/model for songwriting royalties: Half would go to the credited writers/composers of a song, half would be split equally between all seven, the premise being that arrangement was about as important for success as words + melody.

An especially good deal for Chas, there.

A few years ago I read some biography, and loved a bit about their particular deal/model for songwriting royalties: Half would go to the credited writers/composers of a song, half would be split equally between all seven, the premise being that arrangement was about as important for success as words + melody.

Strangely, this was pretty much the Band's split as well, but not as well-known (hence the myth that none of them except Robertson got much in the way of publishing royalties)..

An especially good deal for Chas, there.

Co-wrote "Our House"! And others. In fact, after Mike Barson left, he was virtually the main songwriter in the band.

Yeah, Chas has songwriting credits all over all of their albums, certainly more than Mark (who nevertheless wrote my favourite Madness song), and as Tom says, really stepped after Barson left.

stepped up.

Yes, but I’d imagine he did far less practical arranging on other members’ songs than the ppl who played instruments?

(Suggs obv wrote scantily, but there’s a lot of interpretation in his phrasing / enunciation / application of ineffable Suggsitude)

Speaking of that, it seems to me that over time, Chas increasingly took on himself a role as custodian of ther Madditude – yes, in particular in combo with Suggs – the "grinning malevolence" that they have (quite rightly I think) identified as their true spirit. I just rewatched the Julian Temple live video thingy from the Norton Folgate era; early on there's a segment with the two in a graveyard in the night, which felt like a reference to the "It Must Be Love" video, where Carl and Lee spring forth to take measurements of Suggs as he stares into a grave (itself quite a striking, dark detournement of the line "I never thought I'd miss you half as much as I do").

Yes, but I’d imagine he did far less practical arranging on other members’ songs than the ppl who played instruments?

Smash played trumpet.

(Suggs obv wrote scantily, but there’s a lot of interpretation in his phrasing / enunciation / application of ineffable Suggsitude)

Suggs wrote tonnes of Madness songs! Two songs on the debut, seven songs on Absolutely (inc Baggy Trousers), four songs on 7, five songs on Rise & Fall, five on Keep Moving, five on Mad Not Mad, three on wonderful, four on Norton Folgate, three on Oui Oui Si Si, five on Can't Touch Us Now...

The Julien Temple thing circa Norton Folgate was very much Chas's idea.

(ta for keeping the thread honest stevie, and apols for hasty posting on zing - I mean that the others play on nearly every track, vs less-frequent trumpet, and Suggs wrote less than a frontman is often assumed to do... ofc the range of writing credits, and variety of writing collaborations amongst members, is one of the most remarkable and admirable things about the group!)

Yes, everybody contributed to the songwriting ... and wrote (or co-wrote) good songs!

*hands out menus* are you ready to order?

I misquoted above, it was "comic malevolence", not "grinning". More fitting, not quite as sinister. This level that is perfectly possible to ignore and only see the fun surface, without there being anything wrong with that.

Madness have this in common with another of my favourite bands: Stump, which are also clearly Not For Everyone. I totally get why one might be allergic to what can be perceived as mere gratuitous zanyness and unwarranted quirk; but for me, as I've mumbled on here on occasions, I find Mick Lynch a fantastic lyricist, employing a multitude of poetic means to give real character to different songs, not least that which could be called "comic malevolence" ("Chaos" could have been written with that phrase in mind). It was a massive YES. MAKES SENSE. THANK YOU moment for me when I read in the recent Whatever Happened to the C86 Kids? book that he was a huge Madness fan.

I also just recently realized (and yeah I know this is the kind of thing that aging guys always go on about with the Beatles etc) that at the release of The Rise and Fall, Suggs had not yet turned twenty-two. Yikes.

Track from the new record, v Barzo sounding (to me)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EmfBzpefz0

That is indeed a Barso song.

My two faves off this are Suggs's ones, the opening Theatre Of The Absurd, and If I Go Mad. The latter really reminds me of Mad Not Mad-era b-side Call Me, which I always loved.

while they rarely step out of their comfort zone these days, they really know how to present themselves now.
their online/video/social media presentation has been fantastic for years.
oh, and had to really dig deep to find 'call me' (disc 3 of 'the business') !
not sure i have ever heard it before, but yeah, its clearly from the MNM era.