Posts you had second thought about and decided not to post - put them here

If that's about my post, I agree that there's a fair amount of othering and racist language in the Just So Stories, though it still doesn't feel as deliberately malignant to me as Roald Dahl's stuff. Kipling was a product of his time, and definitely had some ingrained racism that shows up in the Just So Stories and some of the poems, but imo Kim, the Jungle Books, and many (though not all) of the Indian stories - the fiction that he put a lot of love and thought into - put him light-years ahead of other white Victorians on issues of race, religion, and culture.

Maybe I'm breaking an unwritten law of ilx (what Kipling would call an Error in the Fourth Dimension) by responding here, but I wrote two theses on Kipling, love talking about him, and don't want to come across as ignoring or downplaying his problematic side. I keep wanting to start a discussion about him in the Kipling thread, but I wasn't sure if anyone would be interested.

i would be interested in reading that though i wouldn't have anything to contribute

xp definitely do it, I’ll share some pictures of a 40s edition of Kim I own

Kipling defended the Jallianwala Bagh / Amritsar massacre which even Churchill condemned so I can't believe his racial politics were better than most regardless of what else he wrote

Kipling was a very strange, screwed-up, two-halves sort of person. His expressed political beliefs were very conservative; his fiction-writing was overall very progressive and compassionate. There's not a lot of overlap. If he were around today, he'd be one of those people with great long-form writing and a toxic Twitter personality.

I cannot and will not defend Kipling as a person, or his racial politics. But good gravy, that writing. The cadence, the mannered looseness, the richness, the humor. It was an indelible part of my childhood and probably shapes some portion of how I think to this day.

It wasn't intended as a direct response to a particular post or specific line of discussion here, by Lily Dale or anyone. Hence, putting it here

Having a little moment, are we?

lmfao

Endearingly exotic thread.

The snow thread?

Yep, although now that I’ve just found out that at least 17 people have died it’s less ‘endearing’. Mostly I’m just fascinated by the possibility of life without snow, it’s unfathomable from where I’m standing.

17 people on the thread have died?

RIP

damn, that's a lotta threads we have to start or bump

😏

inaccurate tho?

https://i.imgur.com/vclId.gif

not having a great time in my life right now and and I am oversensitive to stuff at the best of times so probably best if I just stay off here for a bit if people are going to be like this.

Stay classy

My thoughts exactly. Genuinely shocked.

carabiners on belt loops are fine idk?

didn't even have to open up the thread, saw the 'last posted by' and knew instantly

Not entirely fair tbh

(my comment was not related to the two above it, gah i hate this thread sometimes)

Heh its an issue def bytimes

I have no idea what any of you are talking about and that is fucking annoying.

Ah tom isn't that what you always say tho!

Love Tom

I've caught up now and I feel sad for Mark, such a nice guy.

"I have no idea what any of you are talking about and that is fucking annoying."

Is there a keyboard shortcut for this?

?

(I thought at first you didn't get what I meant and was all set to explain myself and then, a sudden flash of awareness: that's the shortcut, stupid.)

✓

pink floyd rules

No self-respecting pub would still have you as a customer.

it’s too early for popcorn

Of all the threads to grow a clusterfuck

she really really likes red pepper flakes

sorry the above is related to me just now discovering the world of Bari Weiss, which led me to Alison Roman, who I'd never heard of and ... I just can't keep up with all this

Crikey.

https://media.giphy.com/media/8JQP4gmtZdSYtP6ToM/giphy.gif

honestly a monster

Imagine choosing this as your hill to die on.

As much as I like being called an absurd fantasist for calling this person’s behaviour what it is while they continue to tell us all that we’re the problem, there is really no point in people clutching their pearls itt without using the tools available to them.

Oh believe me I am.

how come i can't buy more flags to use like you could buy gold to use in world of warcraft

I 100% support yr stance in that thread gyac re you know who

I'm sorry I started this whole thing ...

I really don't like pile ons against posters but considering my role in starting this mess, I am just stepping back and not fighting this battle.

I'm sorry I had an incoherent meltdown in there, sarahell. I was trying to avoid it because it doesn't help anyone, but I just couldn't take it. Fwiw, I don't think anyone's mad at you now - I wasn't ever angry with you, just upset, and I get your explanation, it's cool.

But "my cruelty is feminist praxis" is the biggest load of bullshit and it needs to be called out. I am so tired and so miserable and it all feels so awful.