should ilxors be tempbanned for taking their beefs to other social media? (twitter/fbook/myspace/etc)?

i mean, i think they see gendered oppression everywhere they look. they read it into civil critiques offered by non-male, non-straight, non-cis ilxors -- everyone is an avatar of patriarchy. there is a degree of manipulation in this, for sure, but i also think they see the world like this, which is what makes me feel weird about the whole thing. it feels delusional.

yeah, sorry for semantic nit-picking -- I guess I try not to focus on trying to read said poster's mind or assuming anything about their intentions or thought process, but the effect on the people that they treat that way, and how you feel abused and manipulated ... like, that's the key thing. That it's a pattern, that it affects many people, that it's been brought to this poster's attention by numerous people, some of them friends (and now former friends), and things don't really change.

Like, you should be able to say respectfully: maybe you didn't intend to come across this way, but this feels abusive and I feel manipulated by the way you do x.
And the other poster should respond: Fuck! I don't want to be an asshole! I don't want to hurt you. I am sorry.

And not like you are obligated to just accept that at face value, but, the fact that there didn't appear to be any regret or empathy and only defensiveness and anger ... that is bad.

the whole thing makes me sad, bcz they are incredibly smart and often have v insightful and unique and interesting things to say, but they are also capable of so much harm, and no amount of like gentle calling-in seems to have had any long-term effect on their behavior.

otm!!!

The thing is that literally anyone on this board has some 'thing' they could point to as the reason they constantly behave badly if that person were of a mind to constantly behave badly, but an explanation is not an excuse. And it's not something people here do, by and large. We fuck up because we're humans who fuck up and, by and large, when we fuck up, we issue our mea culpas and try to make right rather than saying 'oh, this one thing about me is why I fucked up and why it's basically your shit to deal with rather than mine'.

Anyway.

the whole thing makes me sad, bcz they are incredibly smart and often have v insightful and unique and interesting things to say, but they are also capable of so much harm, and no amount of like gentle calling-in seems to have had any long-term effect on their behavior. like I so so so wish they could get to a place where they could accept criticism w/o such volatile reaction but as long as that is the case it does not seem like a v great environment for us OR them

― Warmed Regards, (Stevie D(eux)), Monday, February 22, 2021 8:22 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes, this is what it boils down to imo. like, lots of us have rough edges but most of us who do genuinely want to apologize for and change behavior that needlessly hurts other people (though lord knows for some of us it's not always easy). but this person hasn't shown any willingness to move in that direction at all, which over time creates an untenable situation.

xp They're on the record as saying that the only use for empathy is to keep men from physically abusing women. I was chilled to my core when I read that.

They are the only traumatised person in the entire world, the only one with mh issues. The only trans person. In fact they are the sole protagonist of the universe and other humans don’t actually exist, so don’t merit consideration.

As another poster said it’s a hell of a lot to continue putting up with narcissists at a time when everyone is looking for community and support. I had to have a grim chuckle at Neanderthal’s post upthread about a horrible incident being “the last straw”... “a few years back”! it clearly takes a lot to get to this stage & they have put the work in to get this ban

i miss mh ... did he quit ilx?

Just busy with work iirc

That corn won’t cob itself

isn't it more like C:>/ orn or something ...?

Corned beef #

I had to have a grim chuckle at Neanderthal’s post upthread about a horrible incident being “the last straw”... “a few years back”!

Villager: He's a Frankenstein, and they're all the same. It's in their blood, they can't help it. All those scientists, they're all alike. They say they're working for us, but what they really want to do is rule the world.
Second Elder: That's enough now. I will not have this meeting become a free-for-all. These are very serious charges you're making. All the more painful to us, your elders, because we still have nightmares from five times before.

Lol.

Love that scene, especially because the villagers all have British accents, like Peter Noone or something.

I have too many dogs in this fight, and as far as I can see you have none.

no one but they has the appropriate experience to comment on a wide range of matters; for someone to even try is discriminatory. all your dogs are belong to them

It is ableist to hold autistic people to these highly gendered neurological standards around the management of other people’s emotions.

it is discrimination to expect them to care about other people or their feelings, even those of 'friends'. consideration of others requires emotional labour, which they refuse to perform. someone died? not their problem; they shall neither amend nor apologize

this has been going on for 18 years! everyone (well, not gyac or tombot) walks on eggshells whenever they're around and it always turns out the same way! people, most notably sarahell in recent times, bend over backward to accommodate them, only to be shivved in turn. they're only here, periodically, for attention or to-the-letter agreement, and do not care in the least about other people or their experiences

fucking enough already

notable Admin Log update:

(Update, Feb. 22, 2021: after reflection and consultation, this ban is now permanent. Signed WmC)

And the crowd goes wild.

ah -- i'd assumed that 'permanent' was the usual admin log misnomer

nm!

Look i aint been starting anything this past few years, sure, but i must protest at eggshells tbh

Yeah I think plenty of ppl have not at all hesitated to smash a few rounds of eggs over the years tbh. For whatever aim/result it had.

I freely admit that I’m an eggshell guy

I don't know that I've ever engaged directly because I typically avoid interacting with people who seem toxic and/or exhibit a poor understanding of boundaries. So I don't have a dog in this fight or any personal animus. But while I can't think of any one poster who was instrumental in driving away any other particular poster, I can definitely name one particular poster who was instrumental in driving away several posters (and nearly doing so with others), which, whatever positives the poster in question may have contributed to the board, strikes me as a net negative and a situation that I'm glad to finally see handled.

I geniunely dont have a dog in this fight but didn't someone say uptherad it is not kosher to be going on about someone who now has no right of reply? Maybe this isnt the coolest idea.

I agree

I missed a lot of this, things move fast.
This whole thing is sad. Colonel P, my main thought is that I hope you're ok.

I know I'm in the minority in this respect but Branwell did have a knack for explaining certain things in a way that spoke to me.
I am sure I have missed like 80% of all of the stuff described, so am obviously not in a place of having the full picture - I'm really sorry loads of people have been hurt here. I've been in the position of having the boot stuck in while I was feeling particularly low and it stayed with me for a long time and affected what I post.

One thing I'm not clear on though - we on ILX are all ok with people finding our social media accounts/names and posting them publicly, even if it ends up being temporary? I know a lot of you all know each other irl but I did think there was an unofficial line there on making these public?
xp Maybe this is for another thread then?

I do actually somewhat agree that its tough to have this outpouring kinder, yes.

It is maybe a function of a lot of individual frustration and bitten tongues over a long long period tho.

But on the last point, who posts what, where, publicly first is somewhat the key to untangling what's right and fair there

I think the answer to this is no, which is why said screenshot was removed

xp

I mean like, I mention ILX on facebook from time to time, but its innocuous stuff like reposting a funny Tep joke or saying "is ILX down atm?" or whatever.

kinder - we've actually just updated the FAQ in response to this. New text here:

What is the policy on posting personal information?
This is broadly unacceptable and mods will (generally) delete on sight/report, and may warn or ban users for doing so. The definition of "personal information" has a clear core -- it's anything that can identify an individual in ways they have not already volunteered in public on the site. That includes linking or identifying accounts on other sites (whether or not those accounts are anonymous/public), using legal names (when they're not the user's display name here) or posting real-world identifying information. There may be case-by-case exemptions, but in short: don't dox.

we on ILX are all ok with people finding our social media accounts/names and posting them publicly, even if it ends up being temporary

good point -- I think this was handled ok, in that the screenshot from B's twitter (which was public at the time for several posts that obviously referred to gyac) was swiftly deleted. Those posts (if still extant) are now private, which is B's right. I think there had been another post that had been public that gyac had seen, that in between gyac seeing it, and me clicking the link, had been made private. This incident, while also on twitter, wasn't the same as the one this thread was started about.

thanks emil.y - it was something I raised as I occasionally start worrying more about my online privacy.

There were a rash of ILXors who friended me on FB who I fairly quickly either hid my posts from or unfriended because I couldnt really trust shit not to get spewed elsewhere. I'm not saying they would or did, but the impression was left regardless (think ppl like Jon Willamz)

I deliberately didn’t link to their twitter as I assumed they’d do what they did, which was lock it, which they have every right to do.

This person had been tweeting about me for some time, since last September when we clashed over their behaviour. They have referred to me & other users a number of times in ways that would get them FPed by users on here if they actually said the things they said on their public feed here.

All I can say is that I was sick yesterday, received a nudge from an ilxor friend that they were doing this again, saw a series of posts of which some seemed to refer to me and some of which definitely did, and took screenshots. As soon as I mentioned that they had been tweeting about me, they then started pretending the series of what were clearly subtweets were directed at a film they were watching.

I’m not going to post the tweets or the link to the account again, but the content was derogatory of my mental health, referred to me as a “major abuser” and kept referring to my judgement of their actions as “fantasies”. I don’t think I was wrong, given Branwell was aware that I both have OCD (as they do) and that I have experienced abuse in my childhood, to find those comments sickening, so I kept the screenshots because they are the kind of person who will delete their tracks and deny and obfuscate when called out, and I didn’t want them to have that opportunity. There is something particularly awful about those kind of comments that are seemingly targeted at pressing a person’s buttons like that, but nothing this person could do to me could touch me in that way. My being able to handle it, however, doesn’t mean it was right or that anyone else should have to.

Nobody is obliged to think I acted appropriately, but I hope the above will at least provide some clarity. People can obviously FP me & the mods can ban me if they wish, I have no beef with that, because kinder has a point about feeling uncomfortable about that aspect of the thread, and she deserves to have it heard.

It is disengenous of them to go "WHY ARE YOU CREEPING ON MY TWITTER" when they are TWEETING ABOUT YOU, yeah thats just messed up.

I remember about 10 years ago there was something about other female ilxors (of which I assumed I was included) about being "ripped to the tits on SSRIs" ... and I was like, y'know, at that point I was pretty open about my mental health, but not that long before I was super "closeted" for professional reasons, and that was just like ... I think shortly after that incident the poster in question took a break from ilx, and I too took a break, and things seemed to get better for a while in terms of my personal interactions with B.

But when I saw those posts about gyac, (like basically c/p posts from these threads about her), I was immediately transported back to the "ripped to the tits on SSRI's" incident.

tbh i've always sort of assumed that all ilxors are ripped to the tits on SSRIs. i certainly am

absolutely crammed full to the bosom with citalopram

ILX is a regular SSRI filled Bosom Manor!

young, dumb, and full of zoloft

Taking sertraline for the team.

Push-up plunge & paxil

(speaking as the person who suggested the screenshot be deleted: I think it was fair in context that gyac post it to prove herself not a demented, fabricating liar in the face of claims that she was; just that once that had been shown, the shot was better removed.

((it's also fair for someone to vent on their own twitter about something completely vague and unidentifable to their followers. but BB was disingenuous about how this can still be taken by readers at the top of this thread, and outrageous in gaslighting about it yesterday. as noted in other strands of this discussion, simply saying "I'm sorry, I was venting to myself," would have been an alternative option, as would actually realising that the words could be hurtful and that fabricating a context put them in a worse light.)))

gyac - I think seeing as the user was trying to gaslight you then it was relevant to the issue at hand, and I certainly don't blame you for showing your receipts at that time. I wouldn't worry about having a ban sprung on you for it, but yeah, it did make the mods realise we don't have an official policy in place. And the better policy is always "no doxing".

(Another hand up here for the "ripped to the tits on SSRIS" crew, of course.)

Agree with sic but yes, if someone's venting with no names no pack drill on another forum, surely thats their own business right?

I wont get into the "muh private sanctuareeee" concept because its ridic on its face re twitter. Less so FB (you can lock posts to v specific audiences).

I just want to raise one open question

Taking things from peoples social media, or their personal info in general, to ilx is now covered in the faq and absolutely rightly so. We're a long running, intertwined social community and all vulnerable to an extent.

Is there a policy in place answering the question asked in this thread title?

And look, thanks to you and the mods because i think everyone knows that this part of the job is shit

xp im specifically referencing ilxors using other public social media to stir ilx shit in public, for the purposes of clarity- not harmless or malign references off board but just to be super clear i dont think that oblique but obvious references to ilx beef on other public media is actually kosher and while ilx mods cannot control that, we can have a policy in place about whether you get to use ilx while acting that way

There is a policy on the FAQ (which is here: ilxor.com/faq) but tbh it's quite old and I kind of disagree with it.

The current statement is this:

An ILX Poster is hassling me off-board! Do something about it!
"No." is the short but unfortunate answer here. The moderators totally disapprove of people being assholes off-board but our jurisdiction is the board: there really isn't anything we can do about it.

However, there have been cases of clear and deliberate harassment on the boards based on an off-line situation, and in those cases we've tried to act by discouraging or attempting to ban the people involved.

There have also been cases which are online feuds that spill over onto the boards, or where any 'harassment' is blatantly two-way -- if there is somebody you hate on ILX then we suggest for the sake of ILX as a whole and its overall tone that you resolve this off-board if possible.

It's pretty tough to police, but I do think we should be sterner about it than this. Especially when users blatantly distort narratives and slander other ilx0rs. I mean, obviously the policy is correct that we can't do anything about off-board situations, but I think it's pretty clear that we can listen to people who've been treated badly and not let their harassers back.

ty

That wording is so old it predates me, and I think referred to requests that expected mods to do something off-board - which obviously they can’t.

I agree it badly needs an update because posters doing that shouldn’t expect to not have consequences here, no.

All of this kind of makes me love this place even more; people actually care.