outbreak! (ebola, sars, coronavirus, etc)

Thanks caek. That twitter thread is weird though, because I'm not sure it's entirely accurate. I'm wondering if that was the line from an official City of Chicago vax site because, afaik, eligible people in Chicago aren't being prevented from signing up for appointments at Walgreens and the like. Now, how fast those appointments are filling up is another thing entirely.

It's so weird outside NYC. I think the city is doing better, because I keep getting emails about availability at mega-sites. In the Hudson Valley, some medical providers seem to get some does some weeks, and others don't. Last week a local clinic took hundreds of appts. This week they got zero doses.

The problem with that article that Karl posted is that it doesn't mention that taking off our shoes and belts at the airport is completely theatrical and a total waste of time and resources.

While I'm definitely a leftist crank of a certain type, I don't think it's too far to say that the government will use ANY excuse to further surveil and punish its citizens, and we know what the result of such surveillance and punishment has been in the past.

There are already ways for sensors to be placed in pills, transmitting the fact that a patient has taken a dose for a day. Seems like not a totally paranoid fantasy that the govt could do the same with vaccines and use such sensors to track our every move in the name of "public health."

IO, I just read our county has the second lowest vaccination rate out of all the counties in NYS. I WONDER WHY???

This all just goes to show that even though vaccines are increasing and on a good pace, the communication and messaging around them remains fucking awful in most places. It doesn't need to be this hard and confusing.

i basically take most of the info caek drops in here and cascade it to my FB friends to try and cut through the noise.

The subtext I've taken from Chicago and some of the ring suburbs so far is that they really, really, really want to prevent line jumping and are perfectly willing to slow down the entire process to make sure no one sneaks in early. I can get why people are so frustrated.

ty -- yikes!! I can't decide if I think it's the ultra orthodox of one faith or the ultra white nationalists of another. Por que no los dos!

I mainly think it’s because it’s very difficult to find out who is providing vaccines and how to get them. I have no idea where the non senior eligible people can sign up for one!

What would be the purpose of a vaccine passport given that the main people at risk would be the people who aren't vaccinated? I mean I know that there are populations who have some genuine health reason or other they can't get the vaccine, but these are not huge numbers of people afaict.

also: what table said. Just because something became a new normal does not make it good. Removing belt and shoes is likely nonsensical from an actual security perspective. Err on the side of not giving in to wide, sweeping new surveillance powers imo, especially weighed against the already reduced risk that will remain when most people are vaccinated.

I'm open to being convinced otherwise, but the whole idea of a "vaccination ID" in order to participate in society/life seems like a terrible idea. It leads straight to a multi-tiered society that can never NOT be discriminatory because we can't be bothered to serve the health needs of marginalized people even when they're DYING, much less when a system we created just makes them invisible and pushes them further to the margins.

i don't disagree with any of this, but many (most?) public school districts require children to provide proof of vaccination. that seems to hurt/annoy a relatively small number of cranks, and may actually improve health delivery in poorer communities (in addition to the nominal benefit of avoiding measles outbreaks in school).

i assume there are studies that show whether vaccination requirements in schools have improved general healthcare access/delivery. i shouldn't speculate.

Are there any vaccines approved for children yet?

xp We have requirements for kids in schools, but we don't require adults to show the date of their MMR to get into a movie theater or a parent-teacher conference or their job.

Are there any vaccines approved for children yet?

― Nhex, Tuesday, March 2, 2021 2:07 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

no. pfizer or moderna (i forget which) are in the final stage of trials.

xp We have requirements for kids in schools, but we don't require adults to show the date of their MMR to get into a movie theater or a parent-teacher conference or their job.

― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Tuesday, March 2, 2021 2:08 PM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i'm not saying we should require MMR dates to get into a movie theater! (well, i do think that, but i live in the real world.)

but if the concern is that vaccination requirements will in practice exclude adults from society, it's worth noting that requiring kids to get vaccinated to go to school seems like it has caused poor kids to get vaccinated rather than caused poor kids to leave school.

it wouldn't work like this for adults (they don't have regular contact with institution like a school that can help them, etc., etc.) and we just don't have the public health infrastructure (or even the cultural belief in the idea of public health) to solve those problems. which is too bad!

i keep thinking about this piece:

https://newrepublic.com/article/157704/coronavirus-vaccine-united-states-health-care

if we had an NHS i think the arguments against vaccination requirements (with exceptions! in certain risky settings only!) would be weaker.

I think every situation has different things you have to weigh. Schools are also different from movie theaters because (1) we require kids to attend by law and (2) relatedly, kids themselves are minors and don't have much ability to manage their risk or say in the risk they are subjected to. Also, we don't require every vaccine on the planet. No flu vaccine requirement, for example. Just the ones for diseases considered a serious threat to kids.

I think we're about to see several examples of schools, employers and other private businesses testing these exact boundaries. I already saw one local restaurant owner making the case in some FB comments that he should be able to ask for proof of vaccine before letting a diner into his place. Essentially, his case boiled down to "how is it any different to require proof of vaccination as it is to require a temperature check at the door, if the entire point is to reduce the risk of someone entering my establishment and spreading COVID".

I'm OK with requiring movie theater attendance by law

Coupon, the movie

I'm OK with requiring movie theater attendance by law

Compulsory attendance to one non-tentpole, non-franchise movie every six months, for every household.

"how is it any different to require proof of vaccination as it is to require a temperature check at the door

aiui, the legality of the temp check is based upon the law allowing public health measures and the fact that such measures are universally required, not imposed and enforced by individual restaurant owners. Without the legal sanction provided by a public health order, any place of pubic accommodation refusing service to a patron on the basis of their temperature would be illegal.

That makes sense, I'm just saying that I'm going to bet we are going to see some people trying to push those boundaries and test the law.

I don't think vaccine IDs make sense in any circumstance until vaccines are readily available to anyone whenever they want. At that point, I would be ok with a vaccine requirement for international travel so long as there is a global pandemic. I'd also be ok with schools making COVID vaccines part of their requirements along with other vaccines. Beyond that, not much else is workable. If the virus remains widespread among the anti vax population, perhaps things would have to get more strict.

vaccine IDs make sense, but like most ID requirements the implementation is guaranteed to be hopelessly racist and classist

love this

Nice graphic demonstration of the difference in storage requirements here, the Pfizer vaccine comes in a special cooler spilling with dry ice vapors, this comes shipped like a dang Amazon package https://t.co/xMURYQCx7g

— Ed MD (@notdred) March 2, 2021

Texas is lifting the statewide mask requirement. I assume the governor was starting to worry that vaccines were getting to the major cities too quickly.

I just announced Texas is OPEN 100%.

EVERYTHING.

I also ended the statewide mask mandate.

— Greg Abbott (@GregAbbott_TX) March 2, 2021

Not just the mask mandate. Abbott wants to ensure that the CDC warnings of another peak aren't wasted.

oh joy

https://i.imgflip.com/504d6a.jpg

You have to give Abbott a lot of credit for throwing open the Texas border like that.

I can't wait for the viral videos of meltdowns when the "open 'er up" morons find out that private stores can still enforce a mask policy.

It's Texas. There won't be meltdowns. There will be shootings.

my local Floridians are panicking that Florida will be next, I'm wondering if they forgot we kind of already did this last September. DeSantis left everything up to local governments to enforce and largely stripped their ability to fine offenders, so there are cities in more conservative counties that have had restaurants at full capacity with fuckin' nobody masked for half a year now.

the area I live, on the other hand, largely takes it seriously and so do most of the residents (though obv not all).

It's just so fucking stupid to see it happening now, when there is a light at the end of the tunnel. But as with most things with the modern day GOP, this is more about grandstanding than actual governing.

they're doing it now because as soon as people shout they will ask these questions:

"wait, don't the vaccines work?"
"wait, didn't you just say we can all have the vaccine in like two months?"
"wait didn't you say it's likely nobody's spreading it if they're vaxed?"
"aren't you saying the hospitalizations are dipping?"

and make it sound (to idiots) like Dem politicians are just introverts who want to shut the country down needlessly.

i would just like to note that i have been on the money

Biden: “We're now on track to have enough vaccine supply for every adult in America by the end of May.”

— Kate Sullivan (@KateSullivanDC) March 2, 2021

lol was wondering when you'd bring that up

It's just so fucking stupid to see it happening now, when there is a light at the end of the tunnel. But as with most things with the modern day GOP, this is more about grandstanding than actual governing.

― soaring skrrrtpeggios (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, March 2, 2021 5:27 PM (thirteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

otm. just wait like 2-4 weeks! i assume this was because he wanted to beat florida with 2024 in mind.

Just...

If you smoke or have previously smoked at least 100 cigarettes, you will qualify for a COVID-19 vaccine in North Carolina starting on March 24

— Joe Bruno (@JoeBrunoWSOC9) March 2, 2021

I’ve never smoked a cigarette, not sure I can get through 100 in time. But I’m also across the country from North Carolina.

if you smoke chainsmoke 100 cigarettes in a row, you get a free duffelbag

Justin, reopen that border, I'm on my way.

Anti-vaper prejudice IMO

lol how are they gonna know the exact number u smoked historically

If you've kept track of the 99 you've had so far, you can still light up one right before your appointment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVsEWGLC9RI