do or do not, there is no I
― no (Left), Thursday, 4 March 2021 14:15 (three years ago) link
to and fro in shadow from inner to outer shadowfrom impenetrable self to impenetrable unselfby way of neitheras between two lit refuges whose doors onceneared gently close, once away turned fromgently part againbeckoned back and forth and turned awayheedless of the way, intent on the one gleamor the otherunheard footfalls only soundtill at last halt for good, absent for goodfrom self and otherthen no soundthen gently light unfading on that unheededneitherunspeakable home
from impenetrable self to impenetrable unselfby way of neither
as between two lit refuges whose doors onceneared gently close, once away turned fromgently part again
beckoned back and forth and turned away
heedless of the way, intent on the one gleamor the other
unheard footfalls only sound
till at last halt for good, absent for goodfrom self and other
then no sound
then gently light unfading on that unheededneither
unspeakable home
― pomenitul, Thursday, 4 March 2021 14:16 (three years ago) link
if absolute amnesia = death, or death = absolute amnesia, what is any forgotten moment except a little death in a jet stream of infinite deaths?
― The Scampo Fell to Earth (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 4 March 2021 14:16 (three years ago) link
Break the links between each moment, eschew the claims of the past self, reject time as the bondholder of the social contract with self
― beware the ídes of mairt (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 March 2021 14:26 (three years ago) link
I fart more than I used to
― stimmy stimmy yah (Simon H.), Thursday, 4 March 2021 14:27 (three years ago) link
Shackled lists of occupationand accounts of timepoking at your motes in the mirrormultiplicities of you since birth—how will I qualify to reekof hydrangea and urine?
A teen fudges a rolliewhile moping behind me,familiar melody thatburnt glass tube.Sometimes we are our forensics teamin poor resolution clipping,burnt popcorn and oiland verdure like a stiffyare chewing us as we're giving the peace signand they note itin the database.
― it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Thursday, 4 March 2021 14:50 (three years ago) link
Bruce Lee was onto something when he said the mind can be like water. So I think of it a bit like that - the self can be rigid and frozen, getting stuck and finding obstacles, or it can be liquid and flow through cracks and around objects, but the flowing does not change its nature - it was always water. We are always ourselves.
― Kim, Thursday, 4 March 2021 15:31 (three years ago) link
huge apologies for neglecting this obvious answer as a poll choice
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 4 March 2021 16:09 (three years ago) link
the only time I feel connected to my childhood self is during periods of anxiety and depression. because I had those as a kid, just didn't know what they were. I thought to myself a lot "man I freak out and get upset all the time, please tell me when I'm an adult, I won't still be like this!". I'm not like that in the same way (age, wisdom, and meds) but enough so that I sometimes find myself calling back "yea, yeah you will, but you'll know better how to deal with it, so cheer up"
― Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Thursday, 4 March 2021 16:10 (three years ago) link
― stimmy stimmy yah (Simon H.), Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:27 AM bookmarkflaglink
^title of next Faith No More alb
I know I posted one of my own poems above, but it gets at how I feel about this— we're continuously becoming, the singular and stable self is a myth, and it would probably be best if we acknowledged such so we might end the poisonous idea of "sovereignty."
― it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Thursday, 4 March 2021 16:48 (three years ago) link
Human beings have a stable centre, but it's not actually what they conceive of as the self.
― Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:21 (three years ago) link
The other day I found an old external drive and lo and behold it contained the entirety of a webcomic I did from the ages of 15-18. I remember thinking "the art is rough but the jokes are funny" back then, but looking at it now, I don't recognize the person who wrote any of this. Or why I thought some of this stuff was funny, or even really what point I was trying to make with any of it. But I did have one interesting observation - a lot of the jokes related to video games and TV shows and dumb commercials that 34 year old me wouldn't know anything about, while at the time I kind of assumed most of the people reading would've gotten it, since all my friends at the time knew of this stuff too. And I see that my 6 year old son, when he's talking to classmates or grandparents or his teacher, he sometimes launches into long tirades about Mario or Peppa Pig or Lasagna Cat, just assuming that everyone knows what he's talking about, because he can't comprehend a world in which a "bigger person" doesn't know of the same things he does. And that even when you're 17 you still kind of have that in you. There's kind of a basic perspective shift there that I never would've thought about otherwise.
― frogbs, Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:22 (three years ago) link
― it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:48 AM (forty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
was gonna say this myself but less well
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:38 (three years ago) link
ppl are very attached to these accretions of habit and memory they have, myself included
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:39 (three years ago) link
Your ahem what now
― beware the ídes of mairt (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:40 (three years ago) link
I don't think what I wrote means that such accretions and habits have to be discarded or tossed away, but that each day changes how we relate to them as individuals, and thus how we relate to others, who then change how we relate to ourselves, and so on and so forth.
― it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:44 (three years ago) link
yes otm
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:44 (three years ago) link
deems there is no me, i'm everyone else
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:47 (three years ago) link
Becoming is a turbulent process in its own right. Neither it nor being should be romanticized imo.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:47 (three years ago) link
Alternatives arent great mind
― beware the ídes of mairt (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:51 (three years ago) link
More weight, less heart.
― hourspass, Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:53 (three years ago) link
One of the things I find very weird about myself is that my interests have not changed very much over the course of my life. Reading Treeship's post on the other thread about joining ilx at age 24 made me think about myself at 24 - because I was also very unhappy that year and would maybe have been happier if I'd joined ilx - and wonder what I would have posted about. And realized I prob would have posted a lot of crap about John Prine, Rudyard Kipling, E. Nesbit and Homicide, Life on the Street. Add Bruce Springsteen to that list and you're looking at 36-year-old me. I don't mind having that much continuity but I would like to be more flexible / less obsessive in my interests.
― Lily Dale, Thursday, 4 March 2021 17:54 (three years ago) link
I definitely believe self is a story we weave and have to work at maintaining with any kind of coherency. And, really, romanticising is kind of fine with me. Perhaps what I mean is romanticising the alternatives is misplaced wisdom.For me, a good chunk of selfhood and its continuity is the culture we tie ourselves to. I've noticed that since having kids I've experienced a kind of rupture with my past self (selves) - partly because of an absolute and lasting divide in consciousness that occurs at the moment of their birth, partly because priorities change and there's less time and if I'm honest less drive to devote to the cultural project, broadly speaking.That last bit could also be on the 'why are you not posting' thread.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Thursday, 4 March 2021 18:10 (three years ago) link
I simultaneously want to burn down Larkin's lines from Afternoons and absolutely agree with them: 'something is pushing them/to the side of their own lives'.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Thursday, 4 March 2021 18:14 (three years ago) link
My interests have remained the same— after all, more than a decade ago, I graduated uni with a major in Creative Writing and minors in French and Music Composition. I think if anything, my knowledge and appreciation of those interests has simply broadened. And since I don't have kids and don't plan on it, I'm secure in the knowledge that I'll die one of those old poets who croaks surrounded by books and scraps of paper.
― it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Thursday, 4 March 2021 18:14 (three years ago) link
The other day I found an old external drive and lo and behold it contained the entirety of a webcomic I did from the ages of 15-18. I remember thinking "the art is rough but the jokes are funny" back then, but looking at it now, I don't recognize the person who wrote any of this.
Feel like this when I see my ILM posts from 15 yrs ago, tbh
― mahb, Thursday, 4 March 2021 18:37 (three years ago) link
Always find Larkin a good yardstick. Every few years I read 'Aubade' and think "Do I feel like this yet? No? Good".
― mahb, Thursday, 4 March 2021 18:39 (three years ago) link
Jesus fuck what a poem, I've never read that
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 4 March 2021 19:29 (three years ago) link
I suspect Larkin felt like that when he was 15.
― Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Thursday, 4 March 2021 19:38 (three years ago) link
There is no person, I identify to some extent with a fiction constructed from apparent continuity of appearance which can be said to be no more than a statistical illusion or simply unknowable (karma). Subjectiviy such as it is contains time rather than the other way round so there is no change in that respect, but without time and other illusory appearance there is probably no self-reflective cognition. Hey, you asked!
― Noel Emits, Thursday, 4 March 2021 20:26 (three years ago) link
the existence of time was probably the most remarkable discovery that life has achieved so far.
― Judge Roi Behan (Aimless), Thursday, 4 March 2021 20:31 (three years ago) link
Fergie doesnt get enough credit really
― beware the ídes of mairt (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 March 2021 20:32 (three years ago) link
"There is no such person as me either then or now" really should have been an option, sorry!
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 4 March 2021 20:37 (three years ago) link
Did life discover time or do they co-arise as appearances or more precisely as interpretations of appearance? Can either be said to exist other than that? Can they be defined? Sorry, this is rhetorical but I'd actually say no to all of these. Life and time are surely remarkable but they don't really exist as such.
― Noel Emits, Thursday, 4 March 2021 20:45 (three years ago) link
nothing exists as such
― no (Left), Thursday, 4 March 2021 20:49 (three years ago) link
Could be a language problem.
― pomenitul, Thursday, 4 March 2021 20:53 (three years ago) link
Quite. Except that which exists. xp
― Noel Emits, Thursday, 4 March 2021 20:53 (three years ago) link
I feel as if both life and time probably exist
― beware the ídes of mairt (darraghmac), Thursday, 4 March 2021 21:10 (three years ago) link
a decade ago i had little left of myself as i was on caring duty for bh in the midst of her cancer evilness.for years i literally disappeared.whereas now, things are rather different.i am 53 and now rediscovering my own way to live.
(sorry to drag a fun thread into a dark corner, but hey, you asked ()
― mark e, Thursday, 4 March 2021 21:13 (three years ago) link
Karl posted this on the "why aren't you posting" thread, re an old ILX thread:
B) i don't recognize the person that wrote it, while also feeling really, really dumb and recognizing that's still me,
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 4 March 2021 21:16 (three years ago) link
I found an old post of mine from 2004 under an old nickname that was so misogynist and nasty I was shocked. I think this was from a period of time I came here just to troll Geir (who I'd heard of) and I stayed to troll other people, but it felt so surprising that I would find it acceptable to say something like that, even to a stranger.
― Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Thursday, 4 March 2021 21:53 (three years ago) link
fwiw, I think the most durable area of continuity between my younger self and present self are what I find pleasure in.
when I examine this it makes sense. seeking pleasure is one of the two biggest motivators for most of our actions, along with avoiding what we fear. life tends to modify our fears at a faster rate than our pleasures, so pleasures have a greater continuity.
― Judge Roi Behan (Aimless), Thursday, 4 March 2021 22:08 (three years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Sunday, 14 March 2021 00:01 (three years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Monday, 15 March 2021 00:01 (three years ago) link
I’m hardly the same person who voted in this poll.
― epistantophus, Monday, 15 March 2021 00:41 (three years ago) link
This helps me to believe in the continuity of self:
https://i.pinimg.com/564x/2d/76/c9/2d76c958bbda9baeae73a642adb49e75.jpg
― Alba, Monday, 15 March 2021 03:09 (three years ago) link
Depressing if true
― Chuck_Tatum, Monday, 15 March 2021 14:32 (three years ago) link
I had a severe tbi 5 years ago. A very good friend asked me at about 3 months post-injury, just after my release from in-patient-dom, “do you notice differences in your personality or behavior?” My response then was “i am definitely the same, just worse.” By which I meant that my previous defects or weaknesses—in say, executive function, or in navigating between tasks, or in managing conflicting instructions— were now hugely magnified. (Later, and over time, I would learn that I was now um, very dysfunctional in certain roles). Anyhow, my response backinaday was not a bad take for where I was, then. Buuut there was a universe of other differences that I could NOT really perceive. It took a long time to persuade me, but the recovering TBI patient can have an extraordinary lack of insight. For all the difference that I could notice, there was so so much more that I could not see. And that I STILL cannot see. Because I still feel like, just “me.” There are many tasks for which you can say “ah, I used to be able to do x, now I cannot,” and that inability to do is plain to you, as a patient and person. However, it took much more time to make me BELIEVE that “in the past I would have felt like y and acted like z, while now I would feel and act differently.” Gaining even that level of insight years, and a lot if heartbreak. Having your partner say “you are not the person I knew,” that is hard. And it’s not either persons fault. And it is not to be cured. Your “self” changed in ways you don’t perceive. But everyone else does.
― pence's eye juice (Hunt3r), Monday, 15 March 2021 15:13 (three years ago) link
oh there is no self only behaviour, surely every fule knoes that?& since there can be no self I can't complete this.For there is no I
― Stevolende, Monday, 15 March 2021 15:29 (three years ago) link
Loved your post, Hunt3r.
― Alba, Monday, 15 March 2021 15:40 (three years ago) link
That reminds me of the plot of the film The Mind Benders (1963) starring Dirk Bogarde in which he goes into an isolation tank and then gets mentally reprogrammed while his brain is soft and then his wife knows he's a different person but he fights her over it.
― Josefa, Monday, 15 March 2021 16:09 (three years ago) link
Never heard of it but def will search out if i can!
― pence's eye juice (Hunt3r), Monday, 15 March 2021 16:21 (three years ago) link
Great post hunt3r
― Marry and Neghim (darraghmac), Monday, 15 March 2021 16:54 (three years ago) link
TY all. Been reupping my 90s zen sitting and thinking, I find its been more effective than a lot of other things at settling myself.🤷🏻♂️
― pence's eye juice (Hunt3r), Monday, 15 March 2021 16:58 (three years ago) link
Yes, great post Hunt3r.
Dirk Bogarde was a great actor and animal advocate, on top of being really dreamy.
― it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Monday, 15 March 2021 20:41 (three years ago) link