you can browse through all the shit that's being minted. it's so bad. everything is bad. but i may be missing the forest for the trees. there are so many things being "minted" every minute, now. wtf does this mean? what if everything became minted? what if everything was auto-minted and part of a market, whether we wanted that or not? is there anything preventing someone from minting ILX as token? wtf am i even talking about? what a fucking asshole? what the fuck? see what i mean
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 09:07 (three years ago) link
then imagine you visit this thread in 4 months and some jerk has made $45K off of it on NFT and you don't even know how
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 09:09 (three years ago) link
anyway, maybe this will be the rare crypto thing that gets regulated, because now Giphy (I think owned by facebook?) is mad about NFTs using Giphy images (which are actually made by real people, not them) so they're issuing a very official Twitter "hey-quit-it" notification to all
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 09:10 (three years ago) link
NFT's value is built upon an escalating equation that becomes more difficult to solve. as everest says:
...in a digital context scarcity must be constructed- there is nothing that demands the next block in the blockchain be harder to make than the last. If anything, the opposite should be true- computers grow ever more efficient and p"owerful. This means any scarcity is artificial, a process that demands ever more energy, ever more resources lost to continue to operate and return, for no other reason than to insure that tomorrow it will be even more expensive- which makes the wastefulness of today a good investment.This is why cryptocurrency is valuable. There is nothing high-tech about it. There is no miracle. It is simply futures speculation without the speculation- no guessing required, because we know it will be more wasteful tomorrow; it is baked into the tech.All that cryptocurrency does is abstract resources into a market by making those resources unavailable to the future.
This is why cryptocurrency is valuable. There is nothing high-tech about it. There is no miracle. It is simply futures speculation without the speculation- no guessing required, because we know it will be more wasteful tomorrow; it is baked into the tech.All that cryptocurrency does is abstract resources into a market by making those resources unavailable to the future.
right?
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 09:21 (three years ago) link
I had an idea to make some gifs of giant warehouses of bitcoin computers turning into desolate post-apocalyptic wastelands and sell them as NFTs
― Bastard Lakes (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 14:42 (three years ago) link
Ethereum “has been moving” to proof of stake for almost as long as it has existed. It has been so long that “Eth 2.0 PoS Coming Soon!” is something of a running joke.
this really was a tremendous irritant when I was working "in the space"
― stimmy stimmy yah (Simon H.), Wednesday, 10 March 2021 14:52 (three years ago) link
NFT's the only explainer you will need pic.twitter.com/2yM1LVh1Wk— SPAC Lindzon (@howardlindzon) March 11, 2021
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Thursday, 11 March 2021 14:50 (three years ago) link
The digital art community is basically imploding right now as it has polarized into for and against jumping onto this train. People that knew nothing about this two weeks ago, are now cool with creating dox lists of other artists they think are on the wrong side. It’s pretty distressing.
― Kim, Thursday, 11 March 2021 14:57 (three years ago) link
There was a company several years ago (a buddy briefly worked there) selling authenticated, digital sports trading cards... this is nothing newish.
― Andy the Grasshopper, Thursday, 11 March 2021 17:26 (three years ago) link
the difference is that the blockchain stuff makes it extraordinarily inefficient & is solely responsible for all the hype & ridiculous money being thrown around
― ufo, Thursday, 11 March 2021 21:11 (three years ago) link
https://www.wsj.com/articles/nba-top-shot-nft-crypto-digital-collectibles-11615266042?mod=e2tws
Bros with $200k to set on fire passing this shit around hoping to not be the last one holding
― Joe Bombin (milo z), Friday, 12 March 2021 04:01 (three years ago) link
Hot potato shit
― calstars, Friday, 12 March 2021 04:05 (three years ago) link
are people actually making dox lists?
honestly i am unfollowing #NFT evangelists, though. the shit is gross. don't know what else to say, it's just sad. i do understand why some people disregard the whole "cosmically unnecessary electricity usage at a time when ...god am i writing this again? fuck" thing - no one's making money off of digital art, or if you did you had to sell your soul in order to get compensated. and now this is finally a chance for some people to buy a couple lottery tickets, mint their cool shit, and hope it takes off and makes them some money. i guess i can understand that. i think it's wrong to do, when you're aware of what the actual costs are, or if you imagine a world where NFTs were successful and transactions continued to exponentially grow. that's why the evangelists bother me, because they should know better
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 04:18 (three years ago) link
beeple sold a NFT at christie's for $70M today (it was actually a bit lower than but fuck)
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 04:19 (three years ago) link
Had beeple been doxxed before the auction as “mike winkelman “ or whatever ?
― calstars, Friday, 12 March 2021 04:36 (three years ago) link
i don't want to google this, but the thought occurred to me -- how much of this market is centered on anime fan art and furry porn?
― sarahell, Friday, 12 March 2021 08:10 (three years ago) link
I work for an art technology company, was worried what my bosses might think of all this but one of them just said (re: the christies sale) that it was 'gross' and 'depressing' so, er, phew I guess. Maybe the Germans have a word for when you're relieved at your boss's moral stance on an issue.
― Non meat-eaters rejoice – our culture has completely lost its way (ledge), Friday, 12 March 2021 09:09 (three years ago) link
Karl Malone, I suppose the word “dox” might be slightly hyperbolic, but there were apparently up to six lists angrily circulating of artists who were “engaging” with NFTs. One of the large platforms, Artstation, put out a formal statement/apology after the backlash. https://magazine.artstation.com/2021/03/a-statement-from-artstation/
― Kim, Friday, 12 March 2021 13:41 (three years ago) link
Scarcity has never been more abundant.— fed_speak (@fed_speak) March 10, 2021
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 12 March 2021 17:52 (three years ago) link
honestly, i'm registering my discontent and total disapproval right now because i think it's going to become permanent. may as well be people around from the beginning that argued that it was completely wrong
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 17:56 (three years ago) link
The sad thing about NFTs is that all logic says they are dumb and will go away and are unsustainable, but ultimately they’re going to make a lot of people rich and I’m just too lazy/shook/broke to buy in
― bruce spr!ngisH3r3 (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 12 March 2021 18:00 (three years ago) link
this is a problem created by people who thought "the problem is that i'm not rich. the solution is to try to get rich and outsource the costs to people who don't know what i'm even talking about and don't realize they're bearing the costs. again. in 2021. on purpose, by people who think of themselves as good people"
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 18:04 (three years ago) link
let me know if you want to know what else they thought
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 18:06 (three years ago) link
There are collectors who pay millions of dollars for conceptual art pieces. Some of them are no more than a set of instructions. At the same time, I would guess that's a pretty small part of the art market. Most collectors want paintings/sculptures/drawings/prints they can show off at their miami beach villas.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 12 March 2021 18:22 (three years ago) link
And that's pretty much how I think the NFT market is gonna shake out long term - there will be people who will pay a lot for the famous ones, but it will not be a source of income for ordinary artists, and it's going to be a small market compared to physical show off art.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 12 March 2021 18:23 (three years ago) link
I look at it like dogecoin (which is huge) - it’s a bunch of speculators who don’t care about the product, just the value. Great fit for art!!!!!
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 19:12 (three years ago) link
I think the difference is that all dogecoins are the same, each NFT is different. So an NFT created by Grimes will have speculators chasing it, while an NFT created by man alive probably won't.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 12 March 2021 19:15 (three years ago) link
I would invest in Evil Guide Dog NFT tbrr
― sarahell, Friday, 12 March 2021 20:31 (three years ago) link
the climate part of this editorial can take a hike, but most of it is good, and it's way more sanguine about NFTs than i am.
https://rhizome.org/editorial/2021/mar/03/another-new-world/
honestly, i just want to go away. fuck all of this
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 20:34 (three years ago) link
I mean I think the best way to think about it is that it's just a tool for selling digital art and memorabilia. It's not a type of art or a type of memorabilia or an "asset class," it's just a way of "authenticating" a digital object and creating scarcity (as you do with, say, a certified limited edition print that you could easily make more of). And I guess that's more convenient and easier to verify than, like, having a digital artist just mail you a certificate or something. But I don't think that means that there will be all that much additional interest in buying digital art once the initial hype dies down.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 12 March 2021 20:47 (three years ago) link
nah, i don't agree that. not the art part of it or the interest in art, but the first two sentences. it is much more than that, much more complicated than that
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 20:52 (three years ago) link
it is a way of authenticating an object (not just digital - the token can and has been many things) that also negates progress that has been made on climate change. and the more popular it gets, the worst that problem gets. and that problem is ALSO a human-caused problem, one that we imposed on ourselves.
...i know everyone likes to relegate this to an afterthought, probably because people don't like that objecting on grounds of climate change sometimes feels an unfair UNO 4-color wild card that beats all. but why are we creating additional systematically growing self-inflicted wounds, knowingly?
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 20:56 (three years ago) link
rhetorical of course, because who wants to deal with that.
better just to assume that later this year they'll switch to proof of stake. in the meantime, we can trust that regulators have got their eyes on this and _totally_ understand what's going on
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 20:57 (three years ago) link
oh it's stupid as shit, don't get me wrong. I also doubt that its climate change impact is even 1/10000 of cryptocurrency in general.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 12 March 2021 21:21 (three years ago) link
Also, I kind of feel like part of what makes digital art fun and interesting is that it's *not* a unique object and is infinitely copiable. Like KM, part of the enjoyment of your art for me (which, again, is awesome) is very much in the fact that we can all enjoy it together through hotlinks on an ILX thread or an accessible website. So it feels extremely artificial to create a "the one" version of an evil guide dog gif or whatever just so someone can have the bragging rights. Not that I would knock you for it if you did it, bc not being able to monetize is an understandable problem for a digital artist who has to live in a capitalist society. But it feels more like creating a piece of memorabilia of the art than the art itself in a way.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 12 March 2021 21:27 (three years ago) link
thanks man alive, and yeah i agree that it tends to go against the unique property that made digital art unique in the first place.
overall, though, digital art is just a small part of what this will become, like everyone is saying. it's bringing attention to it now, because it's interesting that beeple made $69M at an auction (a week after setting a record for selling a NFT for $6M somewhere else). but later? it sounds dumb, but you could mint something like Celebrity A's first kiss with Celebrity B, and that's a really odd thing to memorialize and trade and spend money on, but so are fortnite outfits.
i guess i'm saying, please unite together to destroy this thing now while it's relatively small, rather than letting it grow until the point when another previously non-carbon intensive classification of "objects" decides to industrialize
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 21:56 (three years ago) link
but really - and here's where i realize i just have to walk away (from the world?!?) - i could make the same argument on a cryptocurrent subreddit or something, and it would be just as futile
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Friday, 12 March 2021 21:57 (three years ago) link
The only way I would be into NFTs if they released nanites that ate the flesh off the buyer and simultaneously uploaded the video to twitter.
― is that a haruomi hosono sword? (PBKR), Friday, 12 March 2021 22:31 (three years ago) link
Also, I kind of feel like part of what makes digital art fun and interesting is that it's *not* a unique object and is infinitely copiable
it isn't inherently though? It depends on what the art _is_ like, does it only exist on Netscape Navigator 3.0 or Mac OS9.2 ... that was a bit of the Rhizome.org / digital art "issue" ... and while it has way more variables than fixed media art (i.e. video), there are definite similarities. ... I remember one piece by the Vasulkas that had to be shown on a particular brand of CRT monitor, for example. A lot of this stuff is the province of museum preservation staff and archivists.
― sarahell, Saturday, 13 March 2021 00:21 (three years ago) link
until now
*mints the province of museum preservation staff and archivists*
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Saturday, 13 March 2021 00:37 (three years ago) link
Gonna mint my dick lol
― ukania west (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 13 March 2021 00:49 (three years ago) link
Wait there seem to be bandwith issues
― ukania west (Bananaman Begins), Saturday, 13 March 2021 00:52 (three years ago) link
my bandwidth is fine
*mints yr dick*
actually, might as well mint a dick! if people participate in the whole thing they should do stuff like that
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Saturday, 13 March 2021 01:00 (three years ago) link
omg -- actually, gonna suggest this to a friend to do for realz
― sarahell, Saturday, 13 March 2021 03:02 (three years ago) link
went to look up whether anyone had NFTed boobs yet, revealing... SpankChain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVyFp8OxbDY
― Joe Bombin (milo z), Saturday, 13 March 2021 03:09 (three years ago) link
Wild guess that this disruptive technology flopped, but maybe the time is now
many benifits of boobs poll
― sarahell, Saturday, 13 March 2021 03:14 (three years ago) link
Karl Malone, I suppose the word “dox” might be slightly hyperbolic, but there were apparently up to six lists angrily circulating of artists who were “engaging” with NFTs. ― Kim, Friday, March 12, 2021 7:41 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
who made those lists? honestly, i want to follow them on twitter.
reflexively separating myself from anyone who is promoting this right now, it's like everyone half the people in an apartment complex starting an Ayn Rand bookclub. fine, do it, but I will also hang a xerox of alan greenspan farting as his toes get tickled on my the door to my apartment, make fun of all of them, and make sure that everyone knows Not Me
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Saturday, 13 March 2021 20:06 (three years ago) link
Seeing a lot of techno utopian ppl pushing hard online for this with music atm. I totally understand embracing a pyramid scheme to make a buck because there's less money in music these days, but positioning doing this as a revolutionary act is pretty depressing (which I'm seeing online from some "community-based" music spaces/people/thinkers/charlatans)
― Bongo Jongus, Saturday, 13 March 2021 20:25 (three years ago) link
i'm hoping that the crypto / NFT people will soon realize that they're actually more interested in the crypto part than the art part, and then they will never talk about art ever again and just go make money and move to their island with thiel
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Saturday, 13 March 2021 20:31 (three years ago) link
I am not defending them, but tbh, don’t really see how this is any different than regular tithing.
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 18:46 (two months ago) link
Jesus he knows me, and he knows I'm right
― never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 18:48 (two months ago) link
I'd have to see the details of the "investment" claim, but when you tithe you know you're giving money to the church that you won't get back. Not in money, anyway.
― nickn, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 18:49 (two months ago) link
should have just offered a traditional 401(k), people would be less angry if they were investing in the Acts of the Apostles Aggressive Growth Fund or the Barabbas Bond Fund
― never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 18:55 (two months ago) link
I’m sure it has to do with the promise of a monetary return on investment. All sorts of laws kick in at that point.
― B. Amato (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 18:58 (two months ago) link
Another thing - it was apparently a 'virtual church,' i.e services on zoom or something.. there was no physical building
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 19:02 (two months ago) link
god is everywhere
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 19:08 (two months ago) link
except the bathroom
― never trust a big book and a simile (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 19:39 (two months ago) link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilet_god
― Beyond Goo and Evol (President Keyes), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 19:40 (two months ago) link
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers
― Andy the Grasshopper, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 19:53 (two months ago) link
many are saying that the return on investment on tithing is 90%
― z_tbd, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 23:04 (two months ago) link
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/01/20/16/80256473-0-image-a-18_1705767451635.jpg
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 24 January 2024 05:22 (two months ago) link
Ah, grift. Enjoy a gift link!
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/business/bitboy-ben-armstrong.html?unlocked_article_code=1.SU0.XIQw.waNRmXK-BCc_&bgrp=g&smid=url-share
Among other joys:
Back then, BitBoy was one of the most popular figures in the wild, scam-ridden world of crypto influencers. Cultivating a persona as a straight-talking everyman, he filmed a livestream five days a week in which he lectured his hundreds of thousands of listeners on the virtues of experimental coins with names like Polkadot or XRP. He said that regulators were fools, and that digital money offered a path to upward mobility. The Lamborghini was vivid proof: Crypto would make you rich and cool and successful.Two years later, Mr. Armstrong, 41, has lost his production company and much of his wealth. His friends have turned on him, and his wife has filed for divorce. Over the last five months, across countless social media posts and videos, Mr. Armstrong has claimed to be the victim of a “criminal conspiracy” by “terrorists” who took over his YouTube channel. “BitBoy is dead,” he recently declared....“I’m going through a midlife crisis,” Mr. Armstrong said in one of several recent interviews. “A spiritual crisis.”....Like any charismatic salesman, Mr. Armstrong has a carefully honed pitch: He used to be just a regular guy, he likes to say, until crypto changed his life. After undergoing treatment for a methamphetamine addiction in the early 2000s, he attended a Christian college and ended up marrying his admissions counselor.
Two years later, Mr. Armstrong, 41, has lost his production company and much of his wealth. His friends have turned on him, and his wife has filed for divorce. Over the last five months, across countless social media posts and videos, Mr. Armstrong has claimed to be the victim of a “criminal conspiracy” by “terrorists” who took over his YouTube channel. “BitBoy is dead,” he recently declared....
“I’m going through a midlife crisis,” Mr. Armstrong said in one of several recent interviews. “A spiritual crisis.”....
Like any charismatic salesman, Mr. Armstrong has a carefully honed pitch: He used to be just a regular guy, he likes to say, until crypto changed his life. After undergoing treatment for a methamphetamine addiction in the early 2000s, he attended a Christian college and ended up marrying his admissions counselor.
And especially this bit about the woman he's having an affair with:
Since the summer, Ms. Wolfe has been working with Mr. Armstrong to rebuild his fan base and fight for control of his company. Before she got interested in crypto, she considered law school, she said, and ran a small clinic for people who wanted to represent themselves in court — mostly men in divorce cases.Ms. Wolfe, who has been married and divorced four times, met Mr. Armstrong at a conference in 2022 as she was trying to make her way in the crypto industry. A few months later, an astrologer she had found on the gig work site Fiverr told her that someone was about to “change the trajectory” of her career.
Ms. Wolfe, who has been married and divorced four times, met Mr. Armstrong at a conference in 2022 as she was trying to make her way in the crypto industry. A few months later, an astrologer she had found on the gig work site Fiverr told her that someone was about to “change the trajectory” of her career.
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 2 February 2024 20:56 (one month ago) link
iirc he posted an epic series of tweets about this a month or two ago
― mookieproof, Saturday, 3 February 2024 00:35 (one month ago) link