Possibly multiple clots linked to the same batch? xp
― Suggest Banazir (onimo), Monday, 15 March 2021 09:21 (three years ago) link
I think it is the kind of thing they have to investigate but my (obviously) non-scientific opinion is that this is a cohort of people probably much more at high risk for blood clots - and probably even more so during a time when everyone is indoors and inactive - during normal times anyway. Still, it’s what they have to look into. Just surprised it hasn’t appeared to have shown up here yet with all the vaccinations done so far.
― Scamp Granada (gyac), Monday, 15 March 2021 09:22 (three years ago) link
[Prof Andrew Pollard -director of the Oxford vaccine group](on BBC just now:)He said there was "very reassuring evidence that there is no increase in a blood clot phenomenon here in the UK, where most of the doses in Europe been given so far".
Finland has also done a "very careful study" and not found an increased risk, he added.
Yes think I'm just doing what I actually hate and that's jumping at news headlines. This is just all precautionary and necessary and typical of what we'll be seeing for this year and behond I guess.
― Two Meter Peter (Ste), Monday, 15 March 2021 09:29 (three years ago) link
I mean..... he would say those things, wouldn’t he?
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 15 March 2021 09:30 (three years ago) link
If it’s an excessive reaction it may well feed vaccine scepticism but maybe they are banking on it actually countering it: “look how careful we are about possible negative effects, which turned out not to be an issue”
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Monday, 15 March 2021 09:31 (three years ago) link
Now they tell me, I had this vaccine yesterday.
― Woke For Luck (Tom D.), Monday, 15 March 2021 09:56 (three years ago) link
Ah you’ll be fineI was getting a bit paranoid because I was having chest pain/upper back pain but I just reminded myself that I get random sharp pains all the time. Today I am getting leg pains but again hardly surprising MMS
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Monday, 15 March 2021 11:12 (three years ago) link
Whoops ...hardly surprising as I was confined to bed for the best part of 24hrs due to side effects. I wonder if that’s a factor, that ppl prone to thrombosis are at greater risk due to being... prone
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Monday, 15 March 2021 11:16 (three years ago) link
All I can say is I'm glad I didn't read this thread before I went for the vaccination. Curiously, I've never had an injection that felt less like an injection, no idea why that should be.
― Woke For Luck (Tom D.), Monday, 15 March 2021 11:26 (three years ago) link
That was my experience too! I certainly felt it later though
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Monday, 15 March 2021 11:28 (three years ago) link
Interesting!
― Woke For Luck (Tom D.), Monday, 15 March 2021 11:31 (three years ago) link
My main point of comparison is my annual flu jab - really feel that going in in a way I didn’t with this one
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Monday, 15 March 2021 11:43 (three years ago) link
JCVI says no link fwiw.
“Safety is absolutely paramount, we monitor the data very carefully” Prof Anthony Harnden, Deputy Chair of the JCVI tells #BBCBreakfast there is no link between blood clots and the Oxford-Astrazeneca jab, after the Netherlands suspended its rollout ⤵️https://t.co/xwRpjQDAUs pic.twitter.com/15Mez4AKBd— BBC Breakfast (@BBCBreakfast) March 15, 2021
my take on why we need to be very careful when interpreting stories about the AZ vaccine and blood clots https://t.co/3IDchEmp8R— David Spiegelhalter (@d_spiegel) March 15, 2021
― Scamp Granada (gyac), Monday, 15 March 2021 11:47 (three years ago) link
I'd never had a flu jab till last year but it was definitely a lot jaggier than this covid one! By the way, I've just thought of a reason why the word 'jab' doesn't sit right with me, it's because you're more likely to say 'jag' if you're Scottish.
― Woke For Luck (Tom D.), Monday, 15 March 2021 11:53 (three years ago) link
This is interesting too, but as the comments say, clots are a pretty high risk for covid itself, at a much higher rate than so far reported.Def, and a thing to bear in mind about risk in general. My age group has a 1 in 1000 chance of being hospitalised due to covid iirc - if this reaction in like 50 out of 20 million ppl is due to the vaccine then we need to know, but it should still be emphasised that the maths is greatly in favour xp yeah I think there’s a north/south divide
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Monday, 15 March 2021 11:56 (three years ago) link
https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2021-03-15/germany-suspends-astrazeneca-vaccine-amid-clotting-concerns
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 15 March 2021 14:50 (three years ago) link
This is a disaster because there’s no evidence the AZ vaccine causes blood clots and these decisions, just as another wave starts in the EU, will kill thousands of people, and they will provide years of talking points to anti vaxxers.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 15 March 2021 14:52 (three years ago) link
eu rises seem to be because of the uk strain, which the uk is now mostly over, albeit after weeks of 1000+ casualties a day.
― koogs, Monday, 15 March 2021 15:02 (three years ago) link
(that based on one news report i heard somewhere)
― koogs, Monday, 15 March 2021 15:03 (three years ago) link
Yes, the British media seems to have conveniently forgotten the horrendous death toll in the UK over the winter in the rush to gloat over/gawp at rising COVID deaths in the EU. This despite the fact that even in Italy, which is the favoured country for COVID horror stories in the UK, the figures are nowhere near as bad the UK was several weeks previously.
― Woke For Luck (Tom D.), Monday, 15 March 2021 15:24 (three years ago) link
Speaking of Italy, they've suspended the AstraZeneca vaccine now.
― Woke For Luck (Tom D.), Monday, 15 March 2021 15:25 (three years ago) link
There's an international debate about expanding vaccine access that is being mostly ignored in the U.S., even though we're the ones blocking it. https://t.co/e4kRC0IA2H— 'Weird Alex' Pareene (@pareene) March 15, 2021
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 15 March 2021 17:37 (three years ago) link
wait, the US is blocking it AND ignoring the debate? that's an insane coincidence
― Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Monday, 15 March 2021 17:44 (three years ago) link
nothing to worry about, Boris has declared that the UK medicine regulatory agency as "one of the toughest and most experienced in the world".
― calzino, Monday, 15 March 2021 18:46 (three years ago) link
weird that even a vague correlation of vaccines and blood clots is being treated as such a big deal when we just accept that birth control comes with an increased risk of blood clots and a huge percentage of the population is on it.
― Lily Dale, Monday, 15 March 2021 18:48 (three years ago) link
birth control pills I mean
― Lily Dale, Monday, 15 March 2021 18:49 (three years ago) link
Pfizer, All UK spontaneous reports received between 9/12/20 and 28/02/21 Deep vein thrombosis 8Pulmonary embolism 15Thrombocytopenia 13AZ, All UK spontaneous reports received between 4/01/21and 28/02/21 Deep vein thrombosis 14Pulmonary embolism 13Thrombocytopenia 12— Alex Tabarrok (@ATabarrok) March 15, 2021
this is from samples of almost exactly 10m AZ and 10m pfizer.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:03 (three years ago) link
so what exactly IS driving the panic, then? did someone in the Royal families in several countries get clots?
― Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:08 (three years ago) link
like 0.00039% clot rate (not even a death rate, just a rate of blood clots) compared with 3% death rate for COVID-19 if people who were going to get a vaccine now don't.
HMM.
― Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:16 (three years ago) link
They hate Britain. Obviously. And who can blame them?
― Woke For Luck (Tom D.), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:27 (three years ago) link
They halt vaccine trials briefly while they look into things like this, right? JUst wondering if the shortened timeframe is what’s making them jumpy. Trying to get my head around it cause I agree with everyone that it seems like it will be p damaging given a lot of these countries already have an issue with vaccine scepticism. I heard a scientist on the radio today talking about how puzzling it was that they’ve made these decisions because not only is there no proof, there is no plausible biological mechanism for this vaccine to cause clots
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:28 (three years ago) link
yeah, trials usually get halted for a few days while they investigate. and usually it's not a big news item (it happened on Pfizer once).
governments actually suspending is problematic because it sends a message to people that it's not safe and you can't unring that bell. and with government agencies actually saying the vaccine should still be used....i'm baffled as to why more governments are joining on this other than it just appearing to rain shit on AstraZeneca since Phase 3 began
― Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:31 (three years ago) link
so what exactly IS driving the panic, then? did someone in the Royal families in several countries get clots?― Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Monday, March 15, 2021 3:08 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
― Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Monday, March 15, 2021 3:08 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
best guess it total lack of trust in the AZ vacccine caused by repeated AZ fuckups, exacerbated by general vacine skepticism in many of these countries, followed by political pressure contagion effect.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:32 (three years ago) link
You jest, Tom, but I can't help but wonder whether (mainly) continental European countries crippled by the anti-vaxx plague aren't practicing pre-emptive damage control with a sprinkling of cheap counter-Brexit nationalism on top. I mostly suspect France of this, maybe Germany as well (and Italy is Five Star Movement land).
xps
― pomenitul, Monday, 15 March 2021 19:33 (three years ago) link
i've been to the doctors in germany and they're nuts so fair enough. ireland suspending it kind of surprising to me.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:34 (three years ago) link
Meanwhile, the European Medicines Agency is singing a different tune: 'the benefits of the AstraZeneca vaccine in preventing COVID-19, with its associated risk of hospitalisation and death, outweigh the risks of side effects.'
From: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/emas-safety-committee-continues-investigation-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-thromboembolic-events
― pomenitul, Monday, 15 March 2021 19:35 (three years ago) link
ireland suspending it kind of surprising to me.
Yeah, this is the one I expected the least. Likewise Norway, which kickstarted this whole wave of skepticism if memory serves.
― pomenitul, Monday, 15 March 2021 19:36 (three years ago) link
it's kind of amazing how all these vaccines show up in record time at much higher efficacy than expected and then we find novel ways to not dispense them.
though fortunately there are other vaccines still being utilized.
― Red Nerussi (Neanderthal), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:36 (three years ago) link
Stuff like this and consciously denying vaccine access to countries in the global south just make me think, do you want this pandemic to ever end or nah I mean, as well as being pure evil in the latter case
― jammy mcnullity (wins), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:41 (three years ago) link
As an aside, I fucking hate how France has such an amazing healthcare system – especially compared to Quebec – yet anti-medical rhetoric has gained so much ground there over the past few decades that their level of self-pwning is now off the charts. People who are able to distinguish between Big Pharma (a murderous international conglomerate in all but name) and Actual Medicine That Saves Lives are going extinct.
― pomenitul, Monday, 15 March 2021 19:44 (three years ago) link
The leitmotiv being 'it's not natural!' Yeah, unlike, I dunno, hemlock.
― pomenitul, Monday, 15 March 2021 19:45 (three years ago) link
The HSE takes guidance about vaccines from the National Immunisation Advisory Committee (NIAC).On Saturday, 13 March 2021, NIAC got a new safety alert from the Norwegian Medicines Agency. The alert was about 4 new reports of serious, rare thromboembolic events (blood clotting), including some complicated by thrombocytopoenia (low blood platelet count) in younger adults after vaccination with the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.It has not been concluded that there is any link between the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine and these cases. As a precaution, NIAC has recommended we temporarily pause use of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.
When to talk to your GPTalk to your GP or GP out-of-hours if you:feel increasingly unwell more than 3 days after your vaccinationnotice blue spots on your skinhave a non blanching skin rash – one that does not disappear when you put pressure on it
― Scamp Granada (gyac), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:45 (three years ago) link
It has not been concluded that there is any link between the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine and these cases. As a precaution, NIAC has recommended we temporarily pause use of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.
this is a great advert for why not to use the passive in public health guidance.
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 15 March 2021 19:56 (three years ago) link
Hey, it was the Irish that kicked all this off I think? And they love the Brits.
― Woke For Luck (Tom D.), Monday, 15 March 2021 20:00 (three years ago) link
(xp) Oops just read your subsequent post.
― Woke For Luck (Tom D.), Monday, 15 March 2021 20:01 (three years ago) link
xp idk, if you can’t use the passive voice for advice passed down from a big transnational medicines agency and enacted by a panel of independent experts, when can you
― Scamp Granada (gyac), Monday, 15 March 2021 20:02 (three years ago) link
ugh i want to go on german tv and stick myself with six doses of astra zeneca vaccine to make a point, this is really nuts
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Monday, 15 March 2021 20:08 (three years ago) link
This is a good summary afaict
Smart, detailed rundown on what's happening with AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine and why it matters. Via @matthewherper https://t.co/oXxIYrfHOZ— Jason Ukman (@JasonUkman) March 15, 2021
― 𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Monday, 15 March 2021 20:13 (three years ago) link
Wonder if US anti-vaxxers will have a field day with this (despite US not using this vaccine), or if Americans' lack of awareness that other countries exist will save us for once.
― lukas, Monday, 15 March 2021 21:10 (three years ago) link
real life is irrelevant for them, it doesn't matter what actually happens or what anything means
― Zach_TBD (Karl Malone), Monday, 15 March 2021 21:20 (three years ago) link