Defenestrate Them All: Canadian Politics 2021

Just saw that it’s confirmed we will be getting the US’s “spare” Astra Zeneca doses - yay?

Re: Attaran, Hachey is no hypocrite after all:

https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/2021-03-25/a-la-defense-du-prof-attaran-un-peu.php

Haha, a week ago, she was wondering aloud on Twitter whether she should write about him (most respondents seemed to assume she meant critically) or should not feed the troll. I replied like this, without expecting she actually would!

Oui, j'espère que vous défendrez encore la liberté académique.

— Sundar Subramanian (@SundarSubrama13) March 19, 2021

Ontario budget sounds OK, in broad strokes. Will need to read more since this piece is very general but even the NDP's criticisms sound tepid in this article.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-budget-2021-covid-19-doug-ford-1.5962279

not much about education in that article:

https://pressprogress.ca/doug-fords-2021-budget-confirms-over-1-billion-in-cuts-to-education-ontario-school-boards-say/

Ugh, figured there was a catch (at least one).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-suspends-astrazeneca-vaccine-covid-19-1.5968657

not loving this

It's dumb. Vaccine rollout is totally shit here, so par for the course.

Indoor dining just suspended in BC for at least 3 weeks as our numbers are back up to as high as they've been (was 900 or so on Friday).

love the non-utilitarian version of medical ethics where a 1% chance that a side effect that kills 1 in 10 million isn’t a statistical fluke is a reason to stop giving out the vaccine that gives 80% immunity to a disease that kills 1 in 100

I have no idea what is even happening anymore. There are rumours that the Ontario school break that got moved to April will be delayed again until the end of the year, but Lecce is saying noo no way won’t happen, but same day Ford is all oh that’s two weeks away, can’t commit, who can say.

And though I respect the medical realities, the way they are threatening more hard lockdowns literally immediately after allowing many businesses to finally restock and restaff is just cruel. It’s breaking people.

"I know it doesn’t, and obviously not all Quebecers are racist. But when a white supremacist party can win a majority, that is an indication of the dominant belief in Quebec." -amir Attaran
@profamirattaran

gotta remember to be careful who you trust. hopefully québec will become a country within my lifetime ... and then give lessons of cosmopolitanism to english canadians.

quebec is very racist and not really in a position to give anyone lessons. it's just that other parts of canada are no slouches in racism and not really in a position to lord any supposed superiority in this matter over quebec (as much as some people may try).

I mean, feel free to model superior cosmopolitanism and teach us rn, pls. No need to wait to become a country. xp

What do people think of this reading?: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-trudeau-legault-1.5965855

I think lots of people are confused because white supremacy for some really means KKK and neo-nazism, which obviously isn’t what CAQ is; while for others, it’s more about how systematic racism upholds white privilege, which is exactly what CAQ is all about, and I’m not going to fault all Quebecers for not being totally aware of these discussions and nuances.

Wanting to give lessons in cosmopolitanism is a strange sentiment that being said: why don’t we wish maximum cosmopolitanism for everyone to be free of their racial heritage? How can it be competitive?

calling québécois white supremacists is off. if you don't get that and talk about missing nuances... forget it. end of the lesson. that was a joke too, me giving lessons: i gave up on interracting seriously with canadians about that a long time ago. if the dudes in here , that i presumed a bit left of shitlibs, don't see a problem with what he said : forget it. i'm outta this thread and will try to stay out.

Yeah but turns out lots of quebecois think that too.

And how can one look at the present treatment of FNIM and not see white supremacy is beyond me.

Sébastien, we have a French-language board now, so we can talk about it there if you like:

https://www.ilxor.com/ILX/NewAnswersControllerServlet?boardid=725388455

Sébastien, I don't think anyone here has unequivocally praised Attaran's tweets.

But pom otm, Jdt could use some fire.

These two things are simultaneously true imo: anglophones grossly underestimate the prevalence of Quebec and/or French bashing; francophones use this as an excuse not to put their own house in order.

Much of the debate hinges on whether you believe any alternative to multiculturalism is fundamentally racist or not.

As an aside, user xzanfar is a good example of someone who appears to outright disdain francophones if their contributions to the ‘most Canadian song’ and Québécois music threads on ILM are anything to go by.

Not that it matters since French is dying anyway, right?

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/breaking-point-studies-find-french-language-is-on-the-decline-in-quebec-1.5367575

Quebec and/or French bashing

Does this mostly mean people like xzanfar talking shit or do you feel that there is a broader level of discrimination? I grew up in the suburbs of Ottawa in the 90s and am p aware of the former thing. (I don't think there's a modern-day phenomenon comparable to gay-bashing or Paki-bashing, though?)

Every time a Reddit thread about Canada makes it to the top of r/all there’s always someone who waxes poetic about how amazingly nice Canadians are, until it inevitably turns into a conversation about how the Québécois are the exception to this rule. Cue a subthread about how awful Quebec is and how much they fucking hate it. The hundreds or thousands of upvotes (depending on how popular the thread is) such comments systematically garner speak for themselves.

And yeah, race-based bashing is def worse, no question about it.

It’s reddit.

Reddit is extremely mainstream these days.

As far as Attaran is concerned, Trudeau pointedly called his behaviour by its name:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-trudeau-calls-for-end-to-university-of-ottawa-professors-quebec/

Plenty of examples in the comments section of that article btw (plenty of counter-examples too!).

I'm honestly confused as to why this guy matters? His tweets are abysmal regardless of your politics

My rule of thumb is that its Quebec bashing if you single out Quebec.

I'm not sure what you mean VHS. Surely there are unique things about Quebec that one could complain about?

Every time a Reddit thread about Canada makes it to the top of r/all there’s always someone who waxes poetic about how amazingly nice Canadians are, until it inevitably turns into a conversation about how the Québécois are the exception to this rule. Cue a subthread about how awful Quebec is and how much they fucking hate it. The hundreds or thousands of upvotes (depending on how popular the thread is) such comments systematically garner speak for themselves.

I'm not sure what you mean VHS. Surely there are unique things about Quebec that one could complain about?

I don't think there's anywhere near a consensus that Cegep sucks.

I meant more like if I wanted to complain that, on the basis of Bill 21, Quebec is Islamophobic, I wouldn't consider that "Quebec-bashing."

Why is everything in Montreal under construction all the time?

Corruption + winter

I don't think there's anywhere near a consensus that Cegep sucks.

I meant more like if I wanted to complain that, on the basis of Bill 21, Quebec is Islamophobic, I wouldn't consider that "Quebec-bashing."

Hmm. The cégep system absolutely rules and I’ve never met anyone who disagrees.

xps rob that’s a fair take and quite different from saying stuff like ‘Quebec is a fascist province devoted to white supremacy’.

Because it forgot to build stuff between 1970 and 2000.

Hmm. The cégep system absolutely rules and I’ve never met anyone who disagrees.

Cegeps absolutely sucks.

xp

That makes sense pom, and it speaks to what is so indefensible about Attaran's entire twitter feed, just one bad-faith point-scoring comparison after another.

Feel jealous yet, Canada? Our federal government is incompetent. https://t.co/9IFoEDl1GW

— Amir Attaran (@profamirattaran) March 30, 2021

It's not like I think Canada is doing an exemplary job, but am I jealous of how the **UNITED STATES** handled / is handling Covid? Jesus christ no.

Cegep divergence is interesting. I feel like I mostly hear good things, but I moved here in my 30s

High school was a nightmare and it got me out of there faster. The majority of my best friends to this day are people I met at the collégial level. It taught me basics without which I would have probably dropped out once I got into university. It changed my life for the better in every possible way.

I'm not sure what you mean VHS. Surely there are unique things about Quebec that one could complain about?

― rob, Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:33 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I just don’t think Quebec is unique in it’s ability to ostracise people of color and immigrants, it’s pretty much the same all over the western world, including the ROC. If you treat Quebec like it exists in some sort of vacuum and not an integral part of Canada, and that you don’t also include that quebecois throughout history have fought for multicultural values and fought against racism inside Quebec and inside Canada, and that you ignore what anglo-Canadiana has done to non-white and non-anglophones throughout the land in its history and in the present day then yeah, I believe it is singling out and pretty shitty behavior.

otm

I have really good memories of Cégep, mostly involving alcohol and drugs

xp
I agree with that entirely!

even from a purely academic standpoint, I think it's good that there's an intermediate point between high school and university. It gives you a couple of years to figure out what you want to do specifically in a way that I'm not sure would be possible if you just went to high school longer.

xp to myself