Defenestrate Them All: Canadian Politics 2021

As an aside, user xzanfar is a good example of someone who appears to outright disdain francophones if their contributions to the ‘most Canadian song’ and Québécois music threads on ILM are anything to go by.

Not that it matters since French is dying anyway, right?

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/breaking-point-studies-find-french-language-is-on-the-decline-in-quebec-1.5367575

Quebec and/or French bashing

Does this mostly mean people like xzanfar talking shit or do you feel that there is a broader level of discrimination? I grew up in the suburbs of Ottawa in the 90s and am p aware of the former thing. (I don't think there's a modern-day phenomenon comparable to gay-bashing or Paki-bashing, though?)

Every time a Reddit thread about Canada makes it to the top of r/all there’s always someone who waxes poetic about how amazingly nice Canadians are, until it inevitably turns into a conversation about how the Québécois are the exception to this rule. Cue a subthread about how awful Quebec is and how much they fucking hate it. The hundreds or thousands of upvotes (depending on how popular the thread is) such comments systematically garner speak for themselves.

And yeah, race-based bashing is def worse, no question about it.

It’s reddit.

Reddit is extremely mainstream these days.

As far as Attaran is concerned, Trudeau pointedly called his behaviour by its name:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-trudeau-calls-for-end-to-university-of-ottawa-professors-quebec/

Plenty of examples in the comments section of that article btw (plenty of counter-examples too!).

I'm honestly confused as to why this guy matters? His tweets are abysmal regardless of your politics

My rule of thumb is that its Quebec bashing if you single out Quebec.

I'm not sure what you mean VHS. Surely there are unique things about Quebec that one could complain about?

Every time a Reddit thread about Canada makes it to the top of r/all there’s always someone who waxes poetic about how amazingly nice Canadians are, until it inevitably turns into a conversation about how the Québécois are the exception to this rule. Cue a subthread about how awful Quebec is and how much they fucking hate it. The hundreds or thousands of upvotes (depending on how popular the thread is) such comments systematically garner speak for themselves.

I'm not sure what you mean VHS. Surely there are unique things about Quebec that one could complain about?

I don't think there's anywhere near a consensus that Cegep sucks.

I meant more like if I wanted to complain that, on the basis of Bill 21, Quebec is Islamophobic, I wouldn't consider that "Quebec-bashing."

Why is everything in Montreal under construction all the time?

Corruption + winter

I don't think there's anywhere near a consensus that Cegep sucks.

I meant more like if I wanted to complain that, on the basis of Bill 21, Quebec is Islamophobic, I wouldn't consider that "Quebec-bashing."

Hmm. The cégep system absolutely rules and I’ve never met anyone who disagrees.

xps rob that’s a fair take and quite different from saying stuff like ‘Quebec is a fascist province devoted to white supremacy’.

Because it forgot to build stuff between 1970 and 2000.

Hmm. The cégep system absolutely rules and I’ve never met anyone who disagrees.

Cegeps absolutely sucks.

xp

That makes sense pom, and it speaks to what is so indefensible about Attaran's entire twitter feed, just one bad-faith point-scoring comparison after another.

Feel jealous yet, Canada? Our federal government is incompetent. https://t.co/9IFoEDl1GW

— Amir Attaran (@profamirattaran) March 30, 2021

It's not like I think Canada is doing an exemplary job, but am I jealous of how the **UNITED STATES** handled / is handling Covid? Jesus christ no.

Cegep divergence is interesting. I feel like I mostly hear good things, but I moved here in my 30s

High school was a nightmare and it got me out of there faster. The majority of my best friends to this day are people I met at the collégial level. It taught me basics without which I would have probably dropped out once I got into university. It changed my life for the better in every possible way.

I'm not sure what you mean VHS. Surely there are unique things about Quebec that one could complain about?

― rob, Tuesday, March 30, 2021 4:33 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I just don’t think Quebec is unique in it’s ability to ostracise people of color and immigrants, it’s pretty much the same all over the western world, including the ROC. If you treat Quebec like it exists in some sort of vacuum and not an integral part of Canada, and that you don’t also include that quebecois throughout history have fought for multicultural values and fought against racism inside Quebec and inside Canada, and that you ignore what anglo-Canadiana has done to non-white and non-anglophones throughout the land in its history and in the present day then yeah, I believe it is singling out and pretty shitty behavior.

otm

I have really good memories of Cégep, mostly involving alcohol and drugs

xp
I agree with that entirely!

even from a purely academic standpoint, I think it's good that there's an intermediate point between high school and university. It gives you a couple of years to figure out what you want to do specifically in a way that I'm not sure would be possible if you just went to high school longer.

xp to myself

And to circle back to that tweet, I do think that we should all be a little more cautious with the words ‘white supremacists’.

But I mean, why the need for a condemnation from the PM? What does "enough" mean coming from the head of government? Does he share Legault's opinion that UOttawa admin should step in? Should Biden also condemn his slander of Alabama (while he overlooks the racism of Massachusetts)? How does JT feel about Attaran's comments on Alberta?

Those are fair questions, re: Trudeau’s intentions, but I just wanted to say that I really don’t think Attaran’s Alberta bashing can be set on an equal footing with his Quebec bashing, which is part of a broader phenomenon with a much longer history, one that is more complex and multifaceted in terms of the cultural differences that are being targeted. To my knowledge, Attaran has never called Alberta a white suprematist province, which is telling. Describing Albertans as ‘greedy’ because they require federal aid to tackle the ongoing pandemic is crass but of a different order than describing Quebec as quintessentially racist.

Also I’m pretty sure no one in Alabama gives a shit about what some Northerner rando thinks.
They’re too busy cracking down on trans rights at the moment. Just like in Quebec, no doubt.

Heh, he was born, raised, and educated in California so I think he's actually a West Coast rando.:P I'm sure Alabamans don't give a shit, though, on which point they are OTM.

Oh yeah I know he's from Cali but the likelihood of Alabamans looking into his background is even lower than that of them caring about his tweets! Def otm to ignore him, I agree, although we (and the media) have all been doing this little dance where it's like 'it goes without saying that we shouldn't feed the troll, BUT...', so mea culpa.

Yeah seems like we could all be better by just ignoring him, plenty of voices speak eloquently and intelligently about racism in Quebec already.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/anti-racism-week-lester-b-pearson-1.5966965

one of those voices pissed off a montreal high school teacher

I'm sure we will see a couple of weeks of media outrage, followed by denunciations from the Assemblée, Legault, and Trudeau himself.

Anyway, my spouse was able to book her first vaccine for this week. I had been starting to lose faith it would happen any time soon.

French coverage of that story is a bit different, as usual:

https://www.ledevoir.com/societe/education/597752/montreal-une-presentation-sur-le-mot-en-n-seme-l-emoi-dans-une-ecole-anglophone

Vallières’s analogy will never not be tirée par les cheveux, however, although it’s also worth remembering that he wrote that book after spending time with the Black Panthers in New York.

xp at last! Congrats!

Thx, pom!

What do you think of Le Devoir's framing of that story?

Dramatically losing your shit ahead of the Q&A over a presentation that was specifically designed to increase awareness of racist bias after two (anglophone) students were caught posting videos of themselves in blackface is nagl no matter which way you slice it. And while the speaker may indeed have drawn some specious parallels (which remains to be seen – this is the claim being reported in Le Devoir), I don’t think the teacher’s aggressive response was justified in this particular context, especially since – once again – Newton was right to point out that the oppression faced by French Canadians is by no means comparable to that of African Americans, contra Vallières, although I do think the latter’s essay is a fascinating historical document that deserves an in-depth discussion to pick apart its assumptions and to point out everything that gets lost in translation when you dump into an anglophone context in 2021. But this was not an academic talk – it was aimed at high school students, some of whom have a history of unmistakably racist behaviour.

*dump it

thanks for that very reasonable perspective pom, and for making me google a French idiom lol

great to hear your spouse is booked, my partner works in mental health and was able to get her shot a few weeks ago and yeah it's a huge relief.

BC has responded to the suspension of AZ for under 55s by offering Astra Zeneca appointments for anyone between 55-65 at pharmacies. The AZ was originally going to be given to frontline workers, especially teachers, so it's unfortunate that process is being delayed by this stupid decision. And
now the 55-65 year olds can get booked ahead of the age group above them. But I'm still very glad BC is finding a way to get shots into arms

BC has been screwing the pooch on most covid regulations and communication in the last six months, but the decision to delay giving the second Pfizer/Moderna shot so more people can get the first shot sooner was excellent.

I don’t see any way Ontario avoids another lock down. Apparently we’re at the highest number of hospitalized since this thing started.

Yeah it seems ineluctable at this stage:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/covid-19-ontario-march-31-2021-icu-admissions-new-high-1.5970884

We need to speed up the vaccination campaign posthaste.

With easter and the weather being nice again, it’s going to be a nightmare.