Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

The 45th anniversary box sets had useful material, but I don't think a box set was the best way of presenting them, it just made everything feel bloated. TBH, that's how I feel about most albums-expanded-into-box-sets. The concept made sense when it was done for jazz reissues (not all of them were great, but a LOT of them were). It turned out to be a bad idea for the Layla sessions, which was capped by a shitty remix of the album proper, but then seven years later Pet Sounds finally made the idea seem viable for rock music. That and the SMiLE sessions do make pretty good box sets, but those should've been the exceptions that proved the rule. Nearly everything else since has been burdened with worthless detritus or live performances that should've been spun off as standalone releases. (As much as I like the Replacements' Dead Man's Pop, that should have separated into three releases: the vinyl edition of the new album, a two-CD deluxe version, and two-CD live album.)

All four canonical VU albums made sense as double CD deluxe editions. VU and Another View deserve to be reissued and combined into one CD, and YES, most of those 1985 mixes really suck. Not all of them, I actually prefer the 1985 mix of "Stephanie Says," and some tracks did need a better or proper mix, which I'm guessing is why a handful of tracks were newly mixed for the 45th anniversary sets. But one CD and a double-LP edition with the best possible mixes would've made sense and could've been perfect for everyone. And that just leaves the live material which should be released on its own. The Matrix material now feels like a rip-off on the 45th anniversary set because it's just an incomplete version of their next archival release. Max's should have stayed its own thing. The 1966 Valleydale show and the Gymnasium tapes both could have been additional volumes of the Bootleg Series that never got past Volume 1 (the "Quine" tapes).

"Stephanie Says" and "Ride Into The Sun" sound much better in their 80s mixes imo.

Anyway, there's some talk of some "new" VU releases coming out this year to complement the Haynes doc, but I haven't heard any concrete details. They'll probably just be like "here's a glow in the dark version of the banana album."

Vinyl press of Fully Loaded Edition would be sweet

where tf is my "Sweet Sister Ray" release, that's what I want to know

Trying to remember, wasn't there some live performance or recording where Lou was sick so John sang most of the songs?

and YES, most of those 1985 mixes really suck.

The only one that kind of misses the mark for me is "I Can't Stand It" which, as Mark G mentioned, was supposedly put forth as a potential single. But there isn't a single track on either VU or Another View that has that same booming, gated snare sound. The 1985 mix of "Foggy Notion" is scarcely different from the later faux-1969 mix, and "Guess I'm Falling In Love" sounds fuller and more immediate in its '80s mix.

I think the '85 mix of "I Can't Stand It" led to a kind of false narrative that snowballed over the years into ALL THE '80S MIXES ARE HORRIBLE AND USE DRUM MACHINES AND ARE ACTUALLY PERFORMED BY THE CHUCK E. CHEESE ANIMATRONIC PUPPETS.

yeah definitely — for the most part, VU and Another View sound fine to me.

xxp here's some of that VU show with Cale on lead vocals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj6xiYUQF-c

angus maclise on drums, too. funny version, more like they're playing "waiting for the man" than "heroin" ...

hahaha Cale takes the opportunity to sing "I know just where I'm going" -- he hated that Lou sang "I don't know just where I'm going."

I think the '85 mix of "I Can't Stand It" led to a kind of false narrative that snowballed over the years into ALL THE '80S MIXES ARE HORRIBLE AND USE DRUM MACHINES AND ARE ACTUALLY PERFORMED BY THE CHUCK E. CHEESE ANIMATRONIC PUPPETS.

I know the point you're trying to make, but that's stretching the joke to ridiculousness. The mixes can feel a bit sterile because they sound so clean. That and the reverb is the extent of pretty much every complaint. I think the echo kind of works on "Lisa Says" (which was bone dry on the original demo), but elsewhere, it sounds like the kind of mismatch you often get when you mix anything decades after the fact. Could be the sound of the compression you're using or the character of the echo (not the effects, but the plate or chamber you're using or whether it's a digital plug-in).

Actually, it can feel like a mismatch on "Lisa Says" too when you play it next to other stuff of similar vintage, but on its own it's probably fine.

I think in 1985, the craze for period-authentic releases hadn't taken hold yet. Someone at the record company might also have hoped that "I Can't Stand It" was going to get heavy airplay next to "We Built This City" and needed the sonics to match it.

Tthanks for the embed! Here is some more info about those shows: https://dangerousminds.net/comments/that_time_in_1966_when_the_velvet_underground_played_a_series_of_shows_with

wow that cale "heroin" version is great, love the poppier vibe (no pun int) of the organ & drums

yeah almost sounds like ? and the Mysterians haha

I think in 1985, the craze for period-authentic releases hadn't taken hold yet. Someone at the record company might also have hoped that "I Can't Stand It" was going to get heavy airplay next to "We Built This City" and needed the sonics to match it.

I don't doubt it. And I don't think that line of thinking has disappeared - anything mixed or mastered for streaming today would brickwall it, regardless of when and how it was recorded. I think this came up in the Tom Petty thread, but that Wildflowers went the extra mile of doing something everyone should be doing - mastering vintage music differently for the format it was intended for. It was also based on decisions made with Petty before he died, but basically they wanted the stuff to fit in with anything streaming, but they understood the compromises they would have to make to do that, so they had three different masterings where they mainly differed by how much compression and limiting was applied. There's the "loud" one for streaming and downloads, a better and more dynamic one for the CD's, and then one without any additional limiting or compression (except what was in the original recording or mix) that they saved for hi-res downloads and I think the vinyl release.

I think those '80s mixes sound great. I guess "I Can't Stand It" ...stands out a little, but I like the effect. It never occurred to me that they're mismatched or whatever.

Is that Cale lead vocal thing the set from when Lou wa sin hospital with hepatitis. I think I heard that the central riff to Sister ray was chanced on during the gig.

Looking back, I don't think I'd even heard the Velvets before the early 80s (I heard lots of other 60s-70s rock as it was coming out, including some Lou singles and Rock 'n' Roll Animal, but not the Velvets) ... in the left-of-the-dial context where I first encountered them, that mix of "I Can't Stand It" fit right in. It was a long time before I realized the banana album is older than Are You Experienced? and Sgt. Pepper's.

that 80s mix of “can’t stand it” really threw me off, I was like “oh wow so the velvets invented martin hannett’s joy division sound too????”

Another View. It's only taken me 35 years to realise this is a pun.

Ha. Sort of got it from the beginning although I had to think about it for a second just now to recall it again.

if it helps, ZZ, i'm right there with you. and even then, i'm saying the word "view" to myself out loud a few times, to compare. sigh.

was lou involved in Another View? remember this is the person who wrote "Isle of You", say that 5 times fast

Is it seen as a 2nd instalment of the missing 3rd lp compi which I think I always still pronounce as 2 letters anyway. I think that's the chronology anyway.
I mean slight refraction in pronunciation like. Don't you wind up with voo if you try to read it as an acronym.
But yeah think I got it when I heard of its existence.

I’ve always considered Another View to be considerably inferior to VU (notwithstanding a few good tracks) – but I revisited both today, and VU wuz kinda stale while AV sounded just great!

I remember thinking the version of "I'm Gonna Move Right In" on "Another View" was literally the first boring Velvets track I'd heard.

remember this is the person who wrote "Isle of You", say that 5 times fast

Doesn't work with my accent.

that 80s mix of “can’t stand it” really threw me off, I was like “oh wow so the velvets invented martin hannett’s joy division sound too????”

― brimstead, Wednesday, April 7, 2021 9:39 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

That reminds me of when I was doing a mix and was playing "I can't stand it" off VU, and cued up "Love Vigilantes" New Order up next, and the timing was so on that it sounded like Mo had decided to carry on playing past the track end, with the New Order track!

Frightened me, at the time!

was lou involved in Another View? remember this is the person who wrote "Isle of You", say that 5 times fast

Personally I'm wondering if audio will ever turn up from the Velvets' performance at the Isle Of Lucy festivl

That reminds me of when I was doing a mix and was playing "I can't stand it" off VU, and cued up "Love Vigilantes" New Order up next, and the timing was so on that it sounded like Mo had decided to carry on playing past the track end, with the New Order track!

Frightened me, at the time!

LOL

That reminds me, I always wanted a box set tracing the direct influence on the Velvet Underground. Something like 100 tracks by 100 different bands, in chronological order beginning with the Modern Lovers' "Roadrunner," then the Stooges, etc. and it could be called 100/10,000 as sort of a play on Eno's famous quote, "The first Velvet Underground album only sold 10,000 copies, but everyone who bought it formed a band."

*direct influence of the Velvet Underground

Any idea why “Ride into the sun” is greyed out in US Spotify but all other tracks in Another View are available?

no, but did notice it

It's a die-hard Yes fan seeking to direct you to Lou's solo version, with Steve Howe's amazing guitar solo.

Greyed out there but can be found on deluxe edition of the third album

*direct influence of the Velvet Underground

I’d be even more interested in a set doing what you originally typed – tracing direct influence on VU.

I’d be even more interested in a set doing what you originally typed – tracing direct influence on VU.

Yeah that would be good too, but listening to those disparate elements sequenced together can feel pretty academic. It makes for a fascinating study, but a mix of stuff influenced by the band tends to have a better flow simply because there's more of a commonality in the music even when the bands are very different.

barring the cale tunes crowbarred into VU, it seems like the stuff cut at these sessions, "I Can't stand it" and "Foggy Notion" in particular, were intended as good time-y shit the band thought might stand them in good stead with audiences wishing to boogie… whereas Another View has by most lights at least two cuts that are way way way more daring…"hey mr Rain" I and II and "Guess I'm falling in Love," the drum sound on which made my jaw drop as a teenager, Mo turns into Bonzo…Bonzmo? I noticed that Lou liked to claim that the band had a no blues licks rule: but almost every song on VU dome runneth over with blues licks…

ha yeah ive always thought that the no blues licks rule, if it truly existed, seems like it was kinda toothlessly enforced

Really? I mean, they might use various bluesy scales but I don’t hear much in the way of blues licks. Same as The Modern Lovers.

It's not that bad a solo.

otm

As far as the solos go, Lou´s were more outside and Sterl´s were kind of fiddly without being bluesy. Guess Doug played the more traditional stuff on Loaded.

You don't look like Martha & The Vandellas.

Are the VU mixes used on that Velvet comp released in the late '80s that for many of us Columbia House subscribers served as intro? If so, great! "I Can't Stand It" leapt out of the speakers, deservedly

Someone at the record company might also have hoped that "I Can't Stand It" was going to get heavy airplay next to "We Built This City" and needed the sonics to match it.

This wasn't happening.

i'd say that both Lou and Sterling's playing is deeply bluesy (without falling into cliche) — they may have had a very specific definition of what a "blues lick" was.

A bit like Lou's "No street slang" rule, because Street slang dates a thing.

And yet....

Are the VU mixes used on that Velvet comp released in the late '80s that for many of us Columbia House subscribers served as intro?

Yep. These were the only mixes available until the 2014 3rd album box.

We talkin' this comp?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bf/VUBest89.jpg