Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

they don't emphasize it but privately, when pressed, most would likely say they have a "personal" objection to abortion. gay marriage is a different story.

a lot of people active in catholic worker houses are openly anti-abortion.

it is fairly heterogenous and non-hierarchical organization but broadly following the church's social teachings is a common aspect

i mean, for catholics that is a central issue. and it's completely valid to take a stand against someone like bruenig on this. but simon is otm that it's not fair to pretend that bruenig is some sort of nazi.

I think it varies wildly? A friend who was active in that community told me the majority of the people involved in a local one weren’t catholic

idk there are just so, so many more deserving objects/subjects of scorn out there it's so silly to me that she generates this much Discourse. I realize I am not currently helping

I don’t even SUBSCRIBE to the New York Times!!

fuck the church's teachings

the transphobia thing is obvious too unless you really don't want to see it

for me this also demonstrates how easy it is to get leftists to abandon their supposed anti establishment principles at the slightest proximity to power, I mean defending a fucking nyt columnist

are all establishments equally repugnant?

what's your point

I've seen enough of this clique pouring scorn on critiques of work and the family and the state to know they're the enemy

do you carry around cards that list all of offenses of your various enemies so you can read them off whenever their names are mentioned, or do you just memorize them

xp simon

she is a lightning rod because this is a fight about the direction of the left. bruenig is a figure that is comforting to the mainstream. she represents economic leftism with a more genteel cultural liberalism that doesn't seek to antagonize "traditional" straight/cis lifestyles, or offer a challenge to their hegemony or something. like, she isn't transphobic, but she also isn't interested in presenting a radical critique of gender herself.

I seem to be missing where anyone is defending her, or anti-choicers for that matter.

I don't want to defend anyone I just want online leftists to be better at arguing their positions and picking their battles

i'll defend bruenig. i think she is fine to believe what she believes. and left is right too. left is right to identify her as someone who stands for values different than their own.

I could go on. these people hate queers and disabled people and sex workers which includes most people I care about (I'm 2/3). this stuff isn't fucking subtle for its targets

why do left wing catholics hate disabled people?

i wouldn't use the word hate but i understand what you mean on the other fronts.

not everyone I'm talking about is catholic. I'm pretty sure most of them are irreligious. there is a lot of contempt for people who don't or can't work as well as casual use of slurs & chan memes & more subtle plausibly deniable bullshit

oh, are you talking about the "post left"? i agree with you. that scene is pretty toxic.

i don't see the bruenigs as part of that gang though

idk what that is. the people I'm talking about are generally (very online) left-liberal social democrats but with certain patterns of conservative or reactionary sympathies

that said there are various anarcho / trot / tankie / ultraleft / nazbol sympathisers in their orbit

clearly you’ve been putting a lot of time into forensically categorising the various sects of online leftism, far be it from me to speculate on your motivations for undertaking that work

is nazbol what they call nazis in philadelphia? do they read jawn kampf?

trots and tankies (i.e., stalinists) are, by definition, opposed to one another. as are "nazbols" -- which i'm not sure anyone actually identifies as -- and "ultraleft" or "anarchist" factions. what is this orbit?

nazbol is a real thing. eduard limonov and stuff. was in the most recent adam curtis.

Left is a Jreg sideproject confirmed

Nazbols, trots, tankies
We'd hear it from the people in the town

where do the maoist third worldists stand on liz bruenig?

The only place I see the phrase "post-left" is Carl Beijer's Twitter and, now, ILX's own treeship

I assume it's just shorthand for "Red Scare Patreon subscribers"

fair enough, there was a nationalist bolshevik party in russia, and the actual nazi party had a "left wing" faction that was eventually purged. and left *is* right that there are people who want to create a political movement rooted in labor issues that eschews social liberalism, and that a lot of these people embrace right wing meme culture. (i am thinking of aimee terese). that's what i called the "post left." but i don't think they have much to do with the bruenigs and i think they have even less to do with "tankies" or any of these other groups.

xp

this is a p funny thread to knock someone for using a term that is obscure to you personally

i am trying to put my toy soldiers in the right order.

Are we lumping Strasserites in with Nazbols now or do they get their own separate column?

c’mon lads let’s not do poster left’s work for free here

Where my Posadists at? (Bunkers, that's where.)

From what I gather, "post-left" is like the dirtbag leftists that refused to stop saying the r-word when everyone else did in 2016?

no. they are reactionaries, basically, who want to have economic leftism without any kind of social liberalism. often they are critical if not hostile to most left wing causes.

i feel like they are gadflies that orbit the left more than anything. my point was basically that someone like liz bruenig isn't really part of that group

which Left seemed to be implying. but maybe he wasn't.

also that 'anarcho-nazbol-trots' is one of the most absurd groupings possible

yeah that is what i was trying to say. these are different people .

Half of them aren't even people, just NSA honeypots.

lol

i thought post-left was some nihilist/egoist/primitivist thing, have the red scare people appropriated it, it doesn't suit them

of course i know these various tendencies hate each other i was making the point that you have partisans of conceivable left and quasi left tendency weighing in with variations of the same tune. the main group is clearly just liberal though sometimes with marxist pretensions

i may have spread my net too wide since this shit is not limited to whatever specific clique this was about but it's hard not to see it all as connected when they're all on the same anti-PC anti-radical left-IDW trip

Twitter makes it difficult to parse political subcultures/trends, no doubt.