defend the indefensible: FACE DANCES by the who

Because it hasn't gotten much love in this thread, let me just say that "Daily Records" is a pop delight.

"Roger has frequently stressed that he thought Kenney was a great drummer, just not for the Who"

and yet you will hopefully excuse me for opining that Roger has struck me as artistically hugely conservative (as well as politically) …he cannot seem to countenance life in which the Who is not touring and playing what, the same 30 songs over and over again… in 1978-1979, the music must have needed changing, as a once in a lifetime musician had died… so get a drummer that's completely unlike him and remake the Who…which I suppose is what Pete wanted, although he had one eye on a solo career (which I have mentioned to Tarfumes over the years that I find it frustrating that he never pursued this past 96 or so. to which Tarfumes oddly seems to be indifferent to)…

would Roger have preferred Simon Phillips? Mark Bryzzikcy-wicky? Richie Hayward? Cozy Powell? Ronald Shannon Jackson? Which drummers would have been right for Roger's essentially conservative view of the Who?

Someone else who has seen and heard more of the Jones shows (up to the one supporting Face Dances) should chime in, but I was under the impression those were generally excellent shows? Check out this live recording from 1979 - it was included as a bonus track on the '90s reissue of Face Dances, and I think it's a much better performance than the studio version later recorded for the same album:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNQlyji0CuQ

Regardless, re: Daltrey's assessment of Jones, I think they eventually found a better fit in Zak Starkey. It's just a shame that Entwistle died only a few years after Starkey settled in because they truly felt like a revitalized group on-stage.

*up to the tour supporting Face Dances

Roger originally wanted multiple drummers; he wasn't comfortable with the idea of settling on a single drummer. He and Pete both felt that Keith's death gave the Who the opportunity to explore areas they hadn't previously been able to, but Roger wanted different drummers for different things in the studio, while maybe using one drummer for touring. Ultimately, that's what they ended up doing on Endless Wire and WHO (partly out of necessity, as Zak Starkey couldn't get out of his Oasis commitments during Endless Wire).

(which I have mentioned to Tarfumes over the years that I find it frustrating that he never pursued this past 96 or so. to which Tarfumes oddly seems to be indifferent to)…

Have you heard Psychoderelict? After that, I can't say I felt anything like, "Boy, can't wait to hear what he'll come up with next!" He supposedly has tons of unreleased demos (multiple boxed-sets' worth, I'm told), but has no interest in dealing with labels and such...or in releasing it, for that matter. But his solo career never interested me as much more than a blueprint of what the Who might've/could've/should've/shouldn't have done. Which is not to say that I don't love some of his solo records, particularly Who Came First, Rough Mix, Empty Glass, and parts of White City. But The Iron Man was rough going, and Psychoderelict even rougher going, though I admire the batshittery at their core.

If Roger is/was so conservative, I don't think Quadrophenia would've happened, nor much of The Who By Numbers, "Guitar And Pen," or much of Face Dances, for that matter -- is there any precedent for "Did You Steal My Money?" in the Who's oeuvre? The most conservative-sounding Who record to me is It's Hard, which Daltrey hated and said should never have been released. He picks the set lists, though, and does so largely based on a combination of "people came to hear x, so we're gonna give them x," and when he can rest his voice during the show. Sadly, when relative obscurities are trotted out, the audience goes to the can or gets a beer; when I saw them do "A Quick One, While He's Away" in 2015 -- something I never, ever thought I'd hear them play live -- there was a mass exodus for the bathrooms. It didn't last too much longer in their set. I suspect Roger wants more things like that in the set, but has to grapple with the fact that so much of the Who's concert audience knows them from little more than CSI and "classic rock" radio.

(Roger's current politics are fucked, being pro-Brexit and all.)

xxp

Someone else who has seen and heard more of the Jones shows (up to the one supporting Face Dances) should chime in, but I was under the impression those were generally excellent shows?

I've heard a bunch, and yeah, they're generally excellent (anything from their September MSG run -- especially 9/16 -- is highly recommended). And reviews from the time back that up: I don't think they got a single review in 1979 (or even in 1980) that said or implied they shouldn't have carried on without Moon.

Regardless, re: Daltrey's assessment of Jones, I think they eventually found a better fit in Zak Starkey. It's just a shame that Entwistle died only a few years after Starkey settled in because they truly felt like a revitalized group on-stage.

― birdistheword, Tuesday, May 25, 2021 11:47 AM (sixteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah, Zak could bring some Moon fireworks, while giving Pete the backbeat he always wanted (and Zak actually came to the Who from Entwistle's solo band). There was a real missed opportunity to make a decent Who record in '96-'02, as they were killing it live.

I have in fact heard Psycho derelict and Iron Man… I have also heard All the Best Cowboys and Empty Glass and wonder why someone who could make rock and roll records as good as, say, Elvis Costello's or Richard Thompson or any number of artists who were sympathetic to new wave/punk at the time, which also had legit AOR hits, and which addressed his concerns as a thinking person, from 1985 through 1993 insisted on releasing records saddled with unwieldy concepts and narratives, etc etc… and in the 2000s, I thought "man, just make a fuckin' record of songs! So you are grateful for the might of the U.S. military? People think you are a kiddie fiddler? What about this Rachel Fuller person? There are some fucking songs for you to write! and you can do it anyway you want, and you don't have to make blood and thunder anthems that Roger thinks is the only thing that will placate the shitty classic rock yahoos that come to your shows…who of course don't fuck with new music from the Who or anyone else…"

but it is true that by now it's too late… I was present for a Who press conference in 2000 in which, just as you say, Tarfumes, Pete said to a a reporter "how do you know I don't have any new music? maybe I do and I don't want you to hear it!

and I'll add you're right that the Ox's 70s tunes solo or on Who records were pretty nifty and compared favorably to a lot of cynical comedy shit at the time, like Zappa for instance, and that he seemed to want to make generic hard rock after, what, Faces Dances? Whereas "The Window Shopper" could be a richard Thompson song, a really good one… unlikely that the Ox ever heard of Richard in any case…

I'm certain he'd have heard of Richard Thompson, can't imagine him listening to him though.

(Roger's current politics are fucked, being pro-Brexit and all.)

Current politics? He's been a Tory forever.

I actually have a lot of affection for "You Better You Bet." The first time I saw the music video, it was on a TV behind the bar of the nearly empty Elks club in Fairbanks, where I'd been stuck for what felt like hours with my cousin and her conservative sociopath hunting guide friend. I can't remember why I was there, I think I was driving them around and the hunting guide insisted on a detour because he was trying to use the Elks to network for his career. When the video came on it felt like the Who had personally shown up to rescue me from the boredom and irritation of listening to the hunting guide trying to schmooze. I wasn't inclined to be picky about the song, and I'm still not.

insisted on releasing records saddled with unwieldy concepts and narratives, etc etc…

I mean, that's what he does, and that's what the Who did. Taking into account all completed outtakes, non-album singles, and b-sides, they could've put out two full albums between Sell Out and Tommy; there's another between Who's Next and Quadrophenia. They also chose not to release a live record in 1972 (parts did get released, scattered over a few records, and it's mindblowing), or put out the de rigueur Double Live in 1976. But no, they had these grand concepts that had to be explored, if not exactly realized, and putting out records because they had enough songs for a record just wasn't how they worked. Hell, even Daltrey said he didn't want them to just put out records for their own sake.

Since I'm not super invested in Pete's solo career, it doesn't bother me that he's not releasing anything, and in a way, I admire it: it's his work, and he can do whatever he wants with it.

ere, I think I was driving them around and the hunting guide insisted on a detour because he was trying to use the Elks to network for his career. When the video came on it felt like the Who had personally shown up to rescue me from the boredom and irritation of listening to the hunting guide trying to schmooze. I wasn't inclined to be picky about the song, and I'm still not.

you feel a little crappy sometimes!

ere, I think I was driving them around and the hunting guide insisted on a detour because he was trying to use the Elks to network for his career. When the video came on it felt like the Who had personally shown up to rescue me from the boredom and irritation of listening to the hunting guide trying to schmooze. I wasn't inclined to be picky about the song, and I'm still not.

LOL I dig it. I think everyone's had that experience where something you normally wouldn't think was that good - a song, a movie, etc. - becomes a f-ing godsend from whatever excruciating experience it's interrupting.

Contemplating a "defend the indefensible: IT'S HARD by The Who" thread, but it's a straight-up B+ album that doesn't need defending unlike this one. Jones' playing sounds strangled to me here compared with 1982.

Blame Bill Szymczyk. Entwistle hated Szymczyk’s production style/techniques, saying it made him self-conscious as a player. I assume Jones felt similarly...likely moreso, given the pressure and expectations.

Jones is definitely looser on It’s Hard, but they cut the whole thing in two weeks.

I’d forgotten about this — Jones’ recorded debut with the Who was on the 1979 Quadrophenia soundtrack (the other track he plays on, “Get Out and Stay Out,” is little more than a sketch, though it works decently in the film). This song dates from ‘67, but the Who didn’t record it then, and Pete’s demo has yet to surface.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwW_L9pb6aU