Which fading empire is more fucked, USA or UK

35 otm

Sometimes a nation can be truly fucked up and yet contain many happy people who have not yet realized how bad their lives are.

― What's It All About, Althea? (Aimless), Sunday, June 27, 2021 4:37 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

The opposite is more common, in my experience.

― Van Horn Street, Sunday, June 27, 2021 11:51 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

smarminess though can be found just about anywhere

same goes for pettiness

Tom Pettiness

smarminess though can be found just about anywhere

― Linda and Jodie Rocco (map), Sunday, June 27, 2021 8:19 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Oh the absolute misery of living in the United States of all possible places and dealing with smarmy people. Someone send help.

The UK's universal healthcare may be rickety, but it's still there. I'm always amazed at the amount people have to pay for health insurance in the US, and the fact that two thirds of bankruptcies there involve health issues. Throw in guns, and that's enough for me not to want to live in the US

man


they are probably both fucked in their own way
I don't know

I'm from the USA and the UK has it worse

lol tell me more

Shoodawopbop

With the analyses above can we do a quick check on which of the countries involved are fading anglo empires

It's entirely possible the UK might not exist in 10 years, which I don't believe is true of the USA, fwiw.

that’s a good point

The US will be 20 nation states

Neandz - that wasn’t a joke from Tom D!

Oh I know. My absurdist quip was meant to suggest that democracy is in peril in the US and although it's unlikely for us to outright stop existing, who knows what we'll look like in ten years.

I'm already terrified of 2022 and 2024 election results being upended

Two of the four countries of the UK already have goverments that are entirely or partly led by political parties whose goal is the dismantling of the UK, we just need Plaid Cymru to get their fingers out and complete the set.

I could see various autonomous regions springing up. NY/NJ/CT could easily secede, though PA would probably want in and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Let the Confederacy realign, as long as they sign non-aggression pacts with everybody else. All the Western states destined to eventually burn/drought themselves to death could become one big desert empire, except California which I'm sure wants no part of that bullshit. The biggest conflicts would likely come between, like, Vermont and New Hampshire or Minnesota and Wisconsin.

That's all fantasy though, I'm talking reality here.

Two of the four countries of the UK already have goverments that are entirely or partly led by political parties whose goal is the dismantling of the UK, we just need Plaid Cymru to get their fingers out and complete the set.

― Are Animated Dads Getting Hotter? (Tom D.), Monday, 28 June 2021 17:14 (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Three

A de jure breakup of the USA is much less plausible to me than a de facto diminution of federal power as passing legislation becomes impossible and governing by executive order and continuing resolution ossifies into the only means of doing business. Some Supreme Court ruling or other will lead to a nullification crisis of some kind, west coast and Acela corridor states will enter into miscellaneous intergovernmental agreements, federal tax revenues will decline precipitously, that sort of thing

The military (and nuclear arsenal) make an actual dissolution of the US almost unthinkable barring nigh end of the world global catastrophe. Fort Hood has 50k troops, only a sliver of which at any given time are from Texas.

A federalism where the only real federal superstructure is the military and intelligence community... now that's possible.

https://www.axios.com/gop-megadonor-south-dakota-troops-border-21881b13-f0d8-461f-a7af-fe6288b5bcbd.html

A Tennessee billionaire and high-dollar Republican donor is funding the deployment of South Dakota National Guard troops to the U.S. Mexico border.

The UK a fading empire? What year is this, 1956?

this was stupid, yes.

eh fading can take a long time. When I become a Canadian citizen, I have to swear loyalty to the queen. Plus there's this whole thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories#Current_overseas_territories

xpost

The deployment of the National Guard from SD is insane, it sets a worrying precedent. I can imagine all kinds of scenarios where Republican-led states use National Guard to amplify conflict, and it could draw in elements of the militia movement etc.

My issue with most analysis setting out scenarios of US breakup is that they treat the South as one distinct political unit but that’s simply not the case now. The political divisions in the country now are much more along urban-rural lines than along the big geographical divides of the 19th century. Alabama now has more in common with South Dakota than with Virginia, politically speaking.

I’m not sure how whether this really makes breakup of the US less likely, but it does seem plausible that nominally Red states like Georgia will have to focus on repressing internal dissent.

A federalism where the only real federal superstructure is the military and intelligence community... now that's possible.

Sort of the Grover Norquist ideal, right? To the extent there is a coherent Republican strategy right now (and I'm not saying it's very coherent), I think that's it. Seize more-or-less unshakable control of the federal govt, and then strip it down, dismantle the regulatory state, theoretically leave things like environmental regulation up to the states, but then of course use federal leverage to penalize California/NY/anyone who steps out of line.

It is definitely among the possible scenarios.

That’s not unlikely, but basically lose-lose for California in particular considering climate change is one of the main points of contention, CA is getting some of the worst effects of it, CA also pays more than its share of taxes, and the US military has been (and maybe still is) the single organization with the largest carbon footprint.

this was stupid, yes.

o rly

https://i.imgur.com/93Ltr2V.jpg