really? they're just like, fuck it, i hate these people, i can't do it?
i don't blame them. this is why i never had the moral fiber to be a doctor, though
― Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 July 2021 05:05 (two years ago) link
that whole thread Tracer mentioned is quite something -
This whole thing is, of course, an excellent content opportunity all around. Lots of cameras and streaming and what looks like a documentary of some sort in the works. pic.twitter.com/Aw9E0rdzSn— Sam Kestenbaum (@skestenbaum) July 17, 2021
― StanM, Thursday, 22 July 2021 05:17 (two years ago) link
XP not quite that harsh but definitely exasperated and at the end of patience. I should note he practices in TX.
― underminer of twenty years of excellent contribution to this borad (dan m), Thursday, 22 July 2021 05:20 (two years ago) link
The first question anyone should ask Tucker is if he is vaccinated, cause I guaranty he has been.
โ Carlos Santana & Mahavishnu Rob Thomas (PBKR), Wednesday, July 21, 2021 10:19 PM (yesterday)
oh he was asked https://news.yahoo.com/tucker-carlson-compares-covid-19-225112275.html
― criminally negligible (harbl), Thursday, 22 July 2021 12:11 (two years ago) link
Extremely good interview
๐จUnvaccinated people aren't a monolith. It's a huge mistake to treat them all as anti-vaxxers who are being selfish or antagonistic. I spoke to @RheaBoydMD about why some folks are still unvaccinated, what to do about it, & why she's still hopeful. 1/https://t.co/xTXM7aRjke— Ed Yong (@edyong209) July 22, 2021
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 July 2021 13:08 (two years ago) link
SF has updated its data tracker.
https://sf.gov/resource/2021/covid-19-data-and-reports
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 July 2021 15:21 (two years ago) link
good link, Ned. and good interview.
everything Dr Boyd states is valid and correct and it's important to understand that some people aren't vaccinated due to lack of access or other concerns as opposed to assuming everybody's a virulent anti-vaxxer.
my only concern about Dr Boyd's statements on this (which I had read outside of the interview) is not from the interview, but this Tweet:
That โworkโ is MUCH more high touch than spouting condescension online.โThe unvaccinatedโ are not a monolith of defectors. They are people our health care system has long underserved - Black folks, rural folks, un and un/under insured folks and young folks.— Rhea Boyd MD, MPH (@RheaBoydMD) July 17, 2021
the audience for that message seems to be the general public, but in the thread, the work she describes seems to focus mostly on community-based initiatives. for the common individual that doesn't have the ability to partake in a community vaccination drive, it's a bit murkier what they can do. she mentions equipping the skeptics with the tools to protect themselves and others, but often times those fall on deaf ears. People respond to links with...other links, usually of the dubious variety. and when it comes to answering questions, if I'm not a medical professional - I probably can't do that adequately!
the snark on Twitter that Dr Boyd refers to, I almost always see concentrated to actual anti-vaxxers who are spreading legitimate disinformation - not people who are curious and looking for help. one of my best friends wasn't vaccinated due to his fear of needles (he got his first shot today), and I sure as hell didn't bully him. but if he'd been spreading anti-vax rhetoric, I mean....it'd have been hard to be civil, no?
I guess I"m just looking for what the common civilian can do in addition to community efforts, like - what we're supposed to change about our daily conversations? I felt like I did a lot of work being an ambassador for vaccines early on, since I was part of the trial, but pretty much everybody I know now is vaccinated, and being that I'm often tied to the house due to my father, I need these alternative options since community initiatives are difficult for me to attend.
― making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Thursday, 22 July 2021 15:43 (two years ago) link
i don't know what the solutions are, but the legit unpersuadable anti-vaxx cranks are a minority of the unvaccinated and it's definitely not productive to focus on them (beyond getting them kicked off facebook, etc.)
(they're also not a winning electoral coalition. they make a lot of noise but there just aren't enough of them that "we were anti-vaccine" is going to be a thing republicans will be proud to talk about next year after another wave or two. not naive enough to think there will be electoral consequences, but i do think that realization -- we're going to get more waves, you do actually personally need to get vaccinated or you're going to get it -- and most people don't want to get it -- is what's behind the current GOP/Fox News vaccine push.)
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:25 (two years ago) link
definitely don't think anybody should be expending hours of energy engaging those folks or centering them as the face of the unvaccinated. I want the vaccination rate back up, rather than being stuck at the 500k/day it's been at for the last few weeks.
― making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:33 (two years ago) link
I've had two friends who were late adopters due to their reaction to needles, one of whom cried for a half hour afterwards due to how bad her phobia is. proud of both of them.
While it's ultimately less important than the fact that the messaging around vaccination is actually evolving with many of the right-wing crank media people and influencers, I'm still left wondering what finally motivated the change these past two weeks. Obviously it's not the renewed threat of it being *their* voters dying off, since that didn't move the needle a bit in any of the previous waves when the red states were slammed with cases and deaths either. I've seen idle speculation that it's internal polling numbers (which I'm very skeptical about) or threat of lawsuits (also skeptical, I doubt anything would actually stick).
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:39 (two years ago) link
"you do actually personally need to get vaccinated or you're going to get it" - i know one person who got their first dose last week because this is now so obviously true. they were not anti-vaxx as such, and understood other people getting vaccinated helped them, but they were happy to let the public health duty/inconvenience/tiny risk of side effects, etc. fall on other people, while enjoying the thrill of being anti-establishment, or something? that changed with this wave.
shame it's come to this, but this wave is probably going to be the most effective public health measure in driving vaccinations this summer.
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:40 (two years ago) link
i don't know if it even requires polling for them to make the very obvious electoral calculation. 70% of voters have had 1+ dose.
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:42 (two years ago) link
at least among the adults in the GOP (fox news execs, mcconnell, desantis, etc.) i think these big-brained bloggers are right about what's happening:
I don't think this is that complicated.The vaccinated are a supermajority of voters, they have every reason to be highly annoyed with the unvaccinated and the people who abet them, and the Delta variant makes it more likely this will still be a salient issue by November 2022. https://t.co/sZBeblCzSO— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) July 21, 2021
For as much as we're a hopelessly polarized country, ~70% of adults (and I'd guess more like ~75% of likely voters) are already at least partly vaccinated. It's hard to get 70-75% of the country to agree on anything!— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) July 21, 2021
Yeah, this is basically what I argued in the post. They suddenly feel very exposed carrying the anti-vax brand. It's the turning on a dime that's harder to figure. Yes, Delta is running out of control. But they've been fairly immune to other new facts on this front.— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) July 21, 2021
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:45 (two years ago) link
xpost - I mean, yeah, but logic rarely dictates anything for these people who are infamous for only digging in their heels harder. I think I'm more struck by how FAST the turn came, not like slowly one or two people every few weeks coming around. It was almost whiplash enducing.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:45 (two years ago) link
they thought it was over and they could criticize public health measures that were behind us without any consequence, and then 2 weeks ago it very suddenly became clear it wasn't over. honestly think it's this simple.
https://i.imgur.com/cfGjrod.png
― ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:49 (two years ago) link
Yeah, again, that makes sense as a simple explanation. But we've seen surges like this before and they didn't give a fuck. I have a hard time imagining these ghouls just suddenly care.
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:53 (two years ago) link
โ ๐ ๐๐ข๐จ (caek), Thursday, July 22, 2021 12:40 PM bookmarkflaglink
supposedly my friend didn't even plan to get his today and went to his physical and his doctor basically said "come on, bro." and pointed out exactly what you mentioned above - if you don't, you'll probably get it, and dude has two kids under 6 years old.
― making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:53 (two years ago) link
I think the sudden turn is 100% connected to the stock market scare on Monday
― Mr. Cacciatore (Moodles), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:55 (two years ago) link
Meantime, good thoughts from Bob Wachter. I mean, there really wasn't a reason not to mask up in general.
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Why-unvaccinated-people-wear-mask-UCSF-Wachter-16327481.php
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:56 (two years ago) link
does make sense honestly. it also becomes easier to revisit months/years later and invoke a little revisionism by fucking with the timeline - "they were never anti-vax/anti-COVID, they were talking about taking it seriously from the beginning".
― making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Thursday, 22 July 2021 16:57 (two years ago) link
Maybe they've seen polling numbers indicating that their audiences + constituents are finally growing wary of taking an increasing amount of the collateral damage in their endless intransigent attempts to own the libs.
― Marty J. Bilge (Old Lunch), Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:00 (two years ago) link
xposts
i share your confusion there, jon. i think it might be hard for us to wrap our heads around the logic of being a covid-hoax/overblown person for 18 straight months, in the face of all the real death happening all around, multiple waves. why now?
i don't know. maybe it's like the end of a party. a couple people leave. one person joins and is super loud. it goes on for a while. and then suddenly, hannity leaves, a couple other influential people leave with him. the party is still going right? but 5 minutes later, it isn't. it's late, and a bunch of people have died. maybe it's time to go to some other death party now.
?
there's also the idea that when systems collapse, it's often when they're at their most complex and overextended.
― Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:15 (two years ago) link
But we've seen surges like this before and they didn't give a fuck.
We haven't seen surges that would be this easy to stop. Easy? Maybe not. But EASIER than virtual schools, shutting down businesses, restricting interstate travel?? Hell yeah.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:17 (two years ago) link
Oh I like this.
The NFL just informed clubs that if a game cannot be rescheduled during the 18-week season in 2021 due to a COVID outbreak among unvaccinated players, the team with the outbreak will FORFEIT and be credited with a loss for playoff seeding, per sources. Massive implications.— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) July 22, 2021
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:18 (two years ago) link
Hereโs more from todayโs memo, which also says the team responsible for a canceled game because of an outbreak among unvaccinated players/staff will be responsible for financial losses and subject to potential discipline from the commissioner. Wow. pic.twitter.com/Q86a2WcG1K— Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) July 22, 2021
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:19 (two years ago) link
Of course, we know that threats from Goodell are mostly 'hah yeah right' but I kinda have a feeling that this has some actual teeth behind it.
โ making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal)
100% on the timeline fuckery. the lines are "i'm waiting til CDC approves the vaccinations!" or "i waited until i could see my doctor in person to get their advice" or "i wanted to do my research" or whatever. there will be no learning or vindication or apologies or anything like that. we just have to be happy that eventually they did the right thing.
― Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:22 (two years ago) link
good on the NFL, and that's something i haven't thought in a long time
fuck this looks terrible, Illinois' daily new cases for the last month:
Week over week reference:28 Days Ago: 24821 Days Ago: 45714 Days Ago: 6177 Days Ago: 861Today: 1,993
― a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:29 (two years ago) link
well the difference between this surge and all the others is that A) this one is almost exclusively happening among unvaccinated people and B) it's coming after a prolonged period of things looking better and more "normal". if lockdown measures need to be initiated again and suddenly baseball games and outdoor gatherings start getting cancelled people are gonna know exactly who's responsible, especially since "I don't wanna get the same shot that hundreds of millions of people already got" is a bit less sympathetic than "I don't want to punt a year of my life".
in other words I think Nate Silver's mostly right here, all the anti-vaxx stuff looks like it might be a major albatross for them, and since it's disproportionately killing Republicans it also threatens to undo all the work they've put into preventing black people from voting
― frogbs, Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:45 (two years ago) link
This is blunt, but.
Prayers to his loved ones, RIP pic.twitter.com/8uFVG4zxg5— T. Greg Doucette (@greg_doucette) July 22, 2021
Setting aside the snark in the replies, this does all appear to be real. Reading back over his tweets throughout July, it ain't pretty.
https://twitter.com/stephenharmon
And that last screenshot is indeed Brian Houston, founder of Hillsong.
Ben has just passed on to us the devastating news that our beloved friend, Stephen Harmon has passed away from Covid. Heartbreaking.— Brian Houston (@BrianCHouston) July 22, 2021
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:52 (two years ago) link
tbh I'm also reeling from the sudden turn in Republican Lizard Land toward "please, y'all, get jabbed," and the only explanation I can come up with is, "Whoa, we're seeing terrible polling that might doom our midterm chances next year."
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:57 (two years ago) link
Let 'em suffer.
Very good piece, similar to the Wachter one.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/fully-vaccinated-masking-delta/619532/
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 22 July 2021 17:57 (two years ago) link
the thing about dying of Covid when your social media is full of anti-vaxx bullshit is that it's such an incredibly embarrassing way to die, I almost feel bad for them
― frogbs, Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:05 (two years ago) link
it doesn't matter. his friends and family won't speak of it, and they'll make up other reasons. there will be no Moment when they all speak the truth and talk about it openly. they just won't talk about it. everyone else, you, me, whoever's laughing at them - some other idiot will die tomorrow. they'll forget about Stephen...Harmon? what was his name? i don't want to load the previous page right now. but that's the point. Stephen __ will be forgotten by everyone else, and his former inner circle just won't talk about it. that makes the problem "go away" for them
― Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:06 (two years ago) link
for example, i believe stephen harmon died of advanced pneumonia. it's a tragedy that the lord had to take him away in the prime of his life, and doubly tragic that people are blaming it on covid. i heard that covid actually makes pneumonia more likely and also more severe - if covid wasn't so overblown maybe stephen could have gotten better healthcare. it's the hospital's fault.
― Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:08 (two years ago) link
everyone at the table nods along to that. yes. it could have been the hospital's fault. and billy had pneumonia a few years back - it was awful. no one at the table wants to talk about it anymore, neither with their family or the other people who will come calling. "I'm sorry to hear about Stephen passing. but masks wouldn't have helped, we know that. all this BS about covid and we drop the ball on pneumonia. it's sad. see you at church"
― Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:10 (two years ago) link
think of Roy Cohn's monologue to his doctor in Angels in America.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:11 (two years ago) link
There's all this overblown hype about COVID killing people but the thing nobody wants to admit is that everybody dies anyway so (crosses arms, smirks)
― Marty J. Bilge (Old Lunch), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:12 (two years ago) link
(dies of COVID)
To quote our birthday boy Don Henley, offer up your best defense.
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:13 (two years ago) link
xp i haven't seen it! you mean the play or the movie/miniseries? probably both
― Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:13 (two years ago) link
I don't actually think this is *the* reason but maybe worth adding to the pile: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-07-22/delta-variant-stock-market-reacts-return-to-work-threatened
― rob, Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:14 (two years ago) link
The miniseries
― So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:14 (two years ago) link
it looks really good. from the plot overview i just read, also highly relatable to our current context
― Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:19 (two years ago) link
The stock market attempted to return to work today after being temporarily sidelined by a work-related injury, but was threatened by a colleague upon arriving in the office.
― making splashes at Dan Flashes (Neanderthal), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:20 (two years ago) link
The stock market was not vaccinated and the colleague was trying to get the stock market to put a mask on
the stock market doesn't understand the american faith in freedom and markets
― Z_TBD (Karl Malone), Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:26 (two years ago) link
yea KM I'm sure you're right, I mean I did recently meet a lady whose father died of Covid and her #1 priority right now seems to be getting Covid taken off the death certificate as she believes it was a Chinese bioweapon designed to stop Trump from winning re-election because he was so tough on them
― frogbs, Thursday, 22 July 2021 18:34 (two years ago) link