Television

Yeah, I'll take Lloyd's word over DeRogatis on this one. There's just too much detail in there for Lloyd to get it wrong (the drum sound part at least), and there's no reason why he'd lie or make it up.

I am really bummed Musician is not really available online. Was a great source of info back in the day

― a (waterface),

You can find copies on eBay cheap!

Well, the stories are pretty flattering to Lloyd and also position the band in opposition to this out-of-touch decadent rocker but I'm sure they're at most exaggerations of the truth.xp

Putting on the CD of Marquee Moon, it really does sound beautifully clean and the double-tracked guitars are standing out. I see what you mean about John's splitting the difference, bird.

*Johns

Taking a week to setup drum sounds seems like lunacy anyway. People used to be so crazy.

Wait, Lloyd said Johns did it in a night. If anything, he repeatedly describes Johns as a bit lazy rather than obsessively meticulous.

The first day in the studio came in November 1976. We had a 2pm start. Andy was nowhere in sight. Finally, about 4.30pm, he came traipsing in. He said, “I came in yesterday, to see what the place was like, and… I can’t work here!” He started listing all the technical tools these old studios didn’t have. We tried to calm him down. Finally, grudgingly, Andy said, “Well, I did manage to set the drums up last night. Got a good sound. Wanna hear it?”

He put on this tape he’d made. And, by God, from the speakers came this humongous, pumped-up John Bonham drum sound. Tom started freaking out. “No! No, no, no, no, no! We don’t want that! You need to take that apart!”

Andy was outraged. “Well, why did you hire me? That’s what I’m famous for. Fuck this! I’m getting a flight back!”

i might have exaggerated by citing a week. i was working on memory, having read the book a few weeks ago.

Xposts
My theory for how Verlaine gets by is he has one of those rent control moved in in 1985 kind of situations… if not, 700,000 is not wealthy for nyc (NB I sure wish my net worth was 700,000)
This still doesn’t tell me what the fuck he does all day long though
—smoke
—tune guitars
—watch TCM
—go to the strand
—???

You could ask the same of so many musicians.

I read something about him haunting used bookstores.

Are those "net worth" sites even remotely credible?

I read something about him haunting used bookstores.

Yeah, the poignant last chapter in Richard Hell's memoir involves Hell running into Verlaine for the first time in years - he was outside of the Strand going through their dollar book bins.

Are those "net worth" sites even remotely credible?

A former roommate of mine who's just a paralegal is on there - I don't know why, but regardless, if their "net worth" was anywhere close to what was listed, they sure aren't spending it.

I have recently retrieved a shit ton of Musicians from storage: I have every issue from 1989 through 1993, and a bunch throughout the 80s and a few going forward from 94… if anyone wants me to hunt for something in a piece during that period or see if I have an issue that their interested in, shoot!

I was an intern for the mag in the early 90s, and it is super interesting to look at these things now… a lot of it is influenced by my interactions with the people who ran the mag, a few of whom I dislike, and when Lord Soto mentions the high boomer, late 80s armani-rock movement, as he has often done lately, Musician pushed the SHIT out of that stuff…more than Rolling Stone… Clapton all the time! Amused to Death, Tin Machine II, Human Touch/Lucky Town, the Soul Cages, the first Robertson album and On Every Street are all hailed as major major works…not to mention Jesus Jones and World Party being held up as the great white guy hopes…

"i might have exaggerated by citing a week."

Not really out of bounds of old school big label budget records though. You could run probably run a small space program on 70s-80s on studio block out time paid for artists that decided to do drugs or fxk off instead of actually making music. A couple I have read about include the Church making Starfish with Waddy Wachtel and the Chili Peppers making their record with George Clinton.

back when wfmu held their fundraising record shows in manhattan, verlaine would always pop in to browse. he did not like strangers acknowledging him, but he seemed to have certain buddies behind certain tables. so...

- buying cheap used records.

Speaking of The Church, Steve Kilbey's autobiography includes some good Tom Verlaine anecdotes. He toured with them (early '90s, IIRC) as their support act, which was a big deal for them as he was a major musical hero. Verlaine's parents were invited backstage at a show near their home, and his mom implored Kilbey to "make sure Tom eats properly".

"Here's a bag of horse."

What was the last example from the boomer/"Armani rock" era that had critical and commercial success, rather than being seen as nostalgia or as a comeback? Ten Summoner's Tales?

The Rhythm of the Saints comes to mind instantly.

It looks like it was the last of that breed to get in the Pazz and Jop top 10.

Clapton's Pilgrim was certainly a death rattle.

saw him move

I was an intern for the mag in the early 90s, and it is super interesting to look at these things now… a lot of it is influenced by my interactions with the people who ran the mag, a few of whom I dislike, and when Lord Soto mentions the high boomer, late 80s armani-rock movement, as he has often done lately, Musician pushed the SHIT out of that stuff…more than Rolling Stone… Clapton all the time! Amused to Death, Tin Machine II, Human Touch/Lucky Town, the Soul Cages, the first Robertson album and On Every Street are all hailed as major major works…not to mention Jesus Jones and World Party being held up as the great white guy hopes…

I kinda of like Lucky Town...seriously though, it's a fine, low-key batch of songs, but it's no "major" work, that's for sure.

The Rhythm of the Saints comes to mind instantly.

I kinda like this one too, but it's not something I would consider putting on a top ten ballot.

The classic rock station here played "My Father's Eyes" from that record, during a short-lived era in 1998 when they would announce, "Now, NEW music from a Classic Rock artist!"

"That record": Pilgrim by Clapton.

Back to Television: maybe the Johns/one week thing came from how long he was in the studio with them? I read somewhere that after the blow-up about the drum sound--and the band making tentative peace by explaining he was hired on his track record working w/guitar bands--Johns started disappearing from sessions (or not showing up at all), and didn't reemerge until mixing began.

it was fairly easy for me to run into every single TV guy during my time in NYC… indeed Verlaine was at the FMU record fairs regularly, but the one time I spoke to him was at a Blumfeld show at Brownies in I guess '95…nobody there knew who he was other than me, and he came up to bum a cig off of me, which I was happy to oblige him…I couldn't think of anything to say to him other than, "oh sure, here you go," which is probly for the best… Lloyd played around NYC all the time in the late 90s and 00s, and in particular a free show at Manitoba's was fantastic… I've mentioned here before about working on a project with Dick Hell, who talked shit about Verlaine with great relish…

geez maybe i was at that manitoba's show? was he playing with that woman student of his? i remember going to don hill's afterwards to catch syl sylvain's show. a real ny rock night!

I kinda like this one too, but it's not something I would consider putting on a top ten ballot.

― birdistheword

I would!

Yeah my friend used to work at one of the other used book stores and TV was a regular. She struck up a conversation with him about the Trautonium which apparently was moderately lively

Veronica moser I know you have better things to do with your time than scan old musician articles but damn

My golden era reading that magazine was more 1985-1988 though- I think I got into the fall because of a sidebar in Musician of all places!

Re: "high boomer, late 80s armani-rock movement," how did we miss mentioning Steve Winwood? Between him, Clapton and Sting, I'm tempted to label it Michelob rock. (Yes, they all hawked different beers, but Michelob has a douchey ring to it.)

Re: Television's third, good call from Alfred, this is good stuff. I noticed guys like DeRogatis and Bill Wyman of the Chicago Reader mercilessly trashing it, but Ira Robbins (who's consistently written positively of it over the years) had probably the best take on their 1992 reunion overall: "Older, more skilled and less excitable, they matched the memory and honoured their previous work by accepting what they were, and what they were not." It's not the Television of yore, but to demand too much of that overlooks what made the Television of 1992 a commendable group. The live Academy recording Jon recommended is indeed excellent, but I had to download it - apparently it was sold only as a CD-R release on their 2003 tour.

Also check out this vintage Television site - it does feel very dated, but for something of that time, it's an impressive design: http://www.thewonder.co.uk

That Academy CD-R is fantastic

where ya'll hearing it? because i need that in my life.

i've got the CD-R itself, but let me see if I can find digital files for you

O_O

i was just hoping for a youtube link or something, but that would be rad thank you!

surprisingly, it's actually streaming on various platforms and available as a download via amazon https://www.amazon.com/Live-At-Academy-NYC-12-4-92/dp/B000TPYU8Y

Trying to remember seeing some version of The dB’s in the 80s and them playing “See No Evil” unless the original came over the sound system or maybe it was just a kooky dream?

I noticed guys like DeRogatis and Bill Wyman of the Chicago Reader mercilessly trashing it,

what on earth is there to trash?

xp chris stamey's version of "Venus" with Yo La Tengo is fantastic, a nice reimagining

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj3Ev3dIkpE

Also check out this vintage Television site - it does feel very dated, but for something of that time, it's an impressive design: http://www.thewonder.co.uk

Last update: 7th May 2021(!)

man i miss sites like that

Chris Stamey's book described how seeing Television in 1974 (?) galvanized his musical plans (and desire to move to New York City).

Wild Flag did a great "See No Evil" for their encores...man, I miss that band, I kind of wish they continued on, especially given how the Sleater-Kinney reunion ultimately turned out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnUHuYIEjAk

Old set lists seem to confirm this cover I remember seeing.

what on earth is there to trash?

Well, here's their take:

Wyman in late 1992:

"Nostalgia sucks; and for obvious reasons, it’s even worse when punks are involved. With this in mind, beware Television reunion concerts...Television is not as bad as you might think: parts of the first two songs, in fact, display a dark beauty and a propulsive authority. But the record’s only other notable feature is the band’s well-wrought persuasive argument for the mannered music they make. They might as well have spent the past 14 years inventing the internal combustion engine."

DeRogatis reviewing their Metro show in May 2001

"In '92, Television was touring behind a new album for Capitol, its self-titled third. But this mediocre effort paled in comparison to '77's groundbreaking Marquee Moon and '78's powerful but underrated Adventure. At Metro on Thursday, the band seemed determined to convince us that the'92 material wasn't really so bad: Half the set was drawn from that disc, while far superior tunes from the first two albums (not to mention Verlaine's solo efforts) was passed over. Monochromatic exercises like 'Shane, She Wrote This' and 'Call Mr. Lee' were better live than on album, but the songs haven't grown more tuneful or gripping in the last nine years. In sharp contrast, older guitar duels like 'See No Evil,' 'Venus' and 'Prove It' sounded as brilliant and timeless as ever..."

brilliant AND timeless

what on earth is there to trash?

xxxxxppost Speaking of Amazon< they no longer have the download of TV's Rhino Handmade (do still have the RH mp3s of Beefheart. Fugs. threefold expansion of Bobby Charles s/t), and the domestic CD of Marquee Moon is not in the main listings, though it is on there (how are the Japanese versions of this and Adventure? Prices aren't bad) But mainly I'm wondering about this:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41XMGTJDZ8L.jpgV

The Miller's Tale: A Tom Verlaine Anthology

EMI Import 2007

1 Used from $39.99
1 New from $57.99

New two CD comp for one of THE founding fathers of modern rock. Disc 1 is 10 live tracks recorded at The Venue, London, June 3, 1982. Disc 2's 18 tracks include his best (both solo & with Television) plus 6 previously unavailable commercially. LIVE: Kingdom Come, Souvenir From A Dream, Clear It Away, Always, Postcard From Waterloo, Pene-tration, Breakin' In My Heart, Marquee Moon, Days On The Mountain & Prove It. HITS: Venus, Glory, The Grip Of Love,Without A Word, Words From The Front, Let Go The Mansion, O Foolish Heart, Lindi-Lu, Five Miles Of You, Anna, At 4 A.M.,

Customer reviews
4.4 out of 5 stars
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I've got all the studio stuff in various formats here and there, but Disc 2 is a handy round-up. and Disc 1's liveness is intriguing.