outbreak! (ebola, sars, coronavirus, etc)

yeah I know, but I mean, this is the world we live it of course some people aren't going to do that

the fact remains, incentives esp financial have proven effective in getting the vaccine hesitant to sign up, there is a significant population of vaccine hesitant people (though obv some of those self identified may be lying but certainly not all), and we could do that if we wanted to boost vaccination rates on a national level

There should be a Tik Tok vaccine challenge, though of course we are all so stupid/doomed it would probably end with teens OD'ing on vaccines after burning down their schools.

high school teacher friend shocked me this weekend about how his (suburban, wealthy) district has a vax-or-weekly-testing mandate for teachers, and many vaxed teachers there are refusing to comply by certifying they are vaxed, bc they consider it an intrusion

Users here also seem to overestimate the number of people who have internet at home— roughly 23% of US households don't have home internet. 15% of people use the internet *only* on their smart phones.

There have been numerous articles about the fact that there are people who are hesitant beyond just being wary of needles or vaccines...they might have slight hesitancy on those counts, but are much more hesitant to miss work for a day or even a few hours. Simply put: blaming people instead of the systems of US capital, labor, and health care is wrongheaded.

it's both

it's people and the system

they all fucking suck

this is the nihilism thread, right?

or is it the faith in humanity thread

how can it not be all of the above, get real

EARTH, on 2021, is ALL OF THE ABOVE

everything about it

Sorry Karl, but blaming someone who, for example, is undocumented and working for a house-cleaning company for feeling hesitant about getting vaccinated is not good politics or public health policy.

i haven't read this thread in over a year (and am v grateful for the 'mark all as read' feature) but: a lot of the vaccine hesitant might be significantly less so if they, yknow, had a doctor they could afford to see regularly and trusted

i'm but a simple frontier psychiatrist and many of my patients (often poor, only have internet on their phones as table notes) will ask me for advice about the vaccine because i'm basically the only healthcare provider they see and they've "heard all kinds of stuff"

that’s not even what I’m fucking saying

If I’m not clear, then it’ll never come through

My mother is not a blameless inmigrant (my favorite category of people), and vice versa. It’s both

a lot of the vaccine hesitant might be significantly less so if they, yknow, had a doctor they could afford to see regularly and trusted

Here's a WaPo article from a few weeks ago about an Alabama doctor reasoning with his patients to be vaccinated. These are people who a) have a doctor and b) a doctor they trust.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/19/unvaccinated-alabama/

Indicative snippet:

“Mr. Potts,” Lacy Smith said, greeting a man in dark slacks and a maroon T-shirt leaning on a cane. “How’ve you been feeling?”
...

Between Smith and two colleagues, there were 10 unvaccinated people on the schedule this day, and the first was Potts.

“Oh, pretty good, considering my age and the heat,” he replied as the doctor reminded herself to be patient, because the question wasn’t whether to bring up the vaccine, only how.

She asked about his garden. They discussed his vitals.

“So,” she finally said. “What are your current thoughts about the covid vaccine?”

“People getting pretty sick, aren’t they?” he said.

“Super sick, especially with this delta,” she said, referring to the variant.

“That shot I get for the shingles, that’s a vaccine too, ain’t it?” he said.

All similar, the doctor said, as she had in their three prior conversations.

“The benefits outweigh the other side, don’t it?” Potts said.

“Very much so, yes sir,” she said, letting a promising silence hang in the air.

He tapped his cane on the floor. “I believe I’ll think on it,” he said, and so the morning began with a no as the situation in Alabama continued to degenerate.

(Sorry, *her* patient. Got it confused with the Alabama doctor article that refused to treat the unvaxxed that ran the day before.)

Sorry Karl, I really didn't get what you were saying, though I get it now.

every time i see my primary dr he complains that he cant convince any of his patients to get the shot. he says that everyone who got it did so as soon as they could, and everyone who hasnt gotten it has a different excuse every time he brings it up

overall, it's crucial to start strategically looking at the difference between anti-vax people and vaccine hesitant people. there's no point in any further outreach to the anti-vax and it would be highly beneficial to put more resources towards the vaccine hesitant and underserved communities

It’s ok. It’s been a theme recently, I’m not being clear with anyone. I really don’t know why I open this thread, though. That’s my own fault. I blame the systems that get this info out to people, I blame their circumstances that are beyond their control. That’s a lot of it, a lot of the problem, and I suppose that’s the part that can hypothetically be influenced or controlled, policies, money, outreach campaigns. There are also the other people who are part of the problem. It is infuriating to hear them get a pass as people who just haven’t been talked to or don’t have the opportunity. But what are you gonna do?? It is pointless, everyone is right. But then again, along the same lines, this entire thread is pointless and life itself is pointless if we’re playing that way

it's not hypothetical, it works

ST. PAUL, Minn. – The State of Minnesota is offering another round of $100 incentives for people who get a COVID-19 vaccination.

This time $100 gift cards will be available for those who get vaccinated at a community clinic around the state. Governor Tim Walz says nearly 50 COVID-19 Community Coordinators, community clinics and Federally Qualified Health Centers will be participating in the program.

“We are taking every opportunity we can to meet Minnesotans where they are — especially in communities hit hardest by COVID-19,” says Governor Walz. “Every shot in the arm is a critical step in stopping the spread of this virus, and local organizations around Minnesota know how to best encourage the communities they serve to get their vaccine. I am grateful for all of our COVID-19 Community Coordinators, community clinics and Federally Qualified Health Centers who are working to encourage vaccinations and serve Minnesota’s communities hit hardest by COVID-19.”

Almost 80,000 Minnesotans who received their first dose between July 30 and August 22 signed up for a $100 Visa gift card as part of a statewide giveaway. At the Minnesota State Fair, more than 3,110 Fairgoers received their vaccine and claimed a $100 Visa gift card on site.

“Our administration is deeply committed to ensuring equity within all aspects of our COVID-19 response,” says Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan. “By providing funds directly to our COVID-19 Community Coordinators, community clinics and Federally Qualified Health Centers for culturally-relevant and on-site incentives, we will be able to better serve communities disproportionately impacted by COVID-19. I am grateful for the leadership of Dr. Nathan Chomilo as he directs our vaccine equity response.”

OF COURSE. Jfc

Am I five???????????

You all think this little of me???

no i do not

sorry karl intended no offense

i'm out peace

What is food? Are mountains out there???

Weirdly, I'm listening to ICP right now as the thread turns into a remix of "Miracles"

fukken mandates, how do they work?

Sorry. I am the one that drags the discourse here into the gutter, consistently. You’re fine, ums. I really shouldn’t open this thread. Not your fault, anyone else’s. ICP forever

every time i see my primary dr he complains that he cant convince any of his patients to get the shot. he says that everyone who got it did so as soon as they could, and everyone who hasnt gotten it has a different excuse every time he brings it up

My wife got her flu shot at CVS last week, and the pharmacist asked her if she'd had her Covid vaccine. I think her answer was (I'm paraphrasing) "duh," and the pharmacist shrugged and told her she'd be shocked how many people were coming in for their annual flu shot who had not been vaccinated for Covid.

Regardless, back to an aforementioned point, if there are hospitals, nursing homes etc. where people are still hovering at only 30% vaxxed, the problem is not (only) lack of education or lack of access, the problem is ... people just not getting vaxxed. There need to be mandates, that's the only thing that works. I think it was Case Western (so, educated and affluent) that asked staff and students to be vaxxed and the number hit a ceiling of 70% or so. They then made it a mandate and it gradually ticked up to 92% (and I assume kept going, that was over a month ago). United mandated the vaccine for employees, and reportedly the number of people to date that rejected the mandate was in the single digits.

Two islands, really.

If only the UK had a similar advantage to lean on.

the meeting where i heard that statistic was the same day as the mandate announcement, i'll be very curious to see how things change with it in place

It seems certain to increase the number of the vaccinated and to stoke the fires of resentment, but those fires were already burning pretty hot just in regard to masks and lockdowns, so what's another log on the pyre? More vaccinated people is a necessity, less aggrieved people is not a necessity.

i have been struck by how differently things feel down here in new mex, at least wrt cultural attitudes towards vaccination/masking/etc. i've seen one person (a year ago) try to make a fuss about wearing a mask (with a 'medical exemption' card off the internet) and the situation was defused fairly quickly. i've heard of some tourists (texans) get stroppy about our regs but not really seen it, everyone tends to play by the rules in public.

i wonder if the reason for this is the same reason vaccination rates are relatively high on the texas border (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/06/mexixan-factory-workers-texas-border-covid-19, https://www.tpr.org/border-immigration/2021-07-16/border-counties-vaccination-rio-grande-valley-covid-delta), which is ... demographically similar to NM? or is it?

as always, new ed yong (and coauthors) is good

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/six-ways-think-about-pandemic-now/620129/

The difference between the U.K. and the U.S. isn’t just that fewer Americans are vaccinated. It’s that fewer of the most vulnerable Americans are vaccinated, and they tend to cluster together.

Risk of death and hospitalizations from COVID-19 rises sharply with age, and in the U.K. nearly everyone over 65 is vaccinated. A New York Times analysis found very few areas in the U.K. where more than 2 percent of residents are 65 and not fully vaccinated. In contrast, that number is above 10 percent in many counties in the American South and Mountain West. Even small differences in these rates can determine the level of crisis: A community where 10 percent of residents are unvaccinated seniors has essentially five times as many people who might need an ICU bed than a community where that number is only 2 percent.

Vaccine coverage also varies dramatically from county to county in the U.S. The more unvaccinated people are concentrated, the more easily the virus can find its next victim. Imagine three out of four people in every household are vaccinated; the unvaccinated person is unlikely to spread the virus very much at home, says Graham Medley, an infectious-disease modeler at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine. Now imagine three out of every four households are completely vaccinated; the virus will spread through the unvaccinated households. The overall vaccination rate is the same, but the results are very different.

wonder how much of the anti-mask bullshit is related to conservatives' favorite pet issue - the idea that they're being "silenced". I think it's like 20% "it's uncomfortable" and 80% "we don't like how it looks"

They need to see the thin, pinched lips of every other honky in the neighborhood. That's freedom, baby.

holy god do I hate DeSantis: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article254436773.html

It isn't even the consequences of his policies; it's the giggling, sneering contempt for things we took for granted like vaccines because Democrats endorse them.

It isn't even the consequences of his policies; it's the giggling, sneering contempt for things we took for granted like vaccines because Democrats endorse them.

i'm glad child vaccines seem to be around the corner and cases are drastically on the decline here, because holy fuck. he's such an anti-science fuck and the new surgeon general he appointed is just as bad, a yes man.

fun fact: roughly 1 out of every 90 COVID deaths worldwide has been from Florida

That's freedom talking, frogbs.

Can't make an omelette ...

ums, table, others: i'm still unbookmarked from this thread (for my own good, and yours). i wanted to apologize for the way i acted yesterday. there are excuses for it but i know what i'm getting into when i click a thread like this. doing my best not put myself into those situations for a while (failing sometimes!), but just wanted to take advantage of a calm moment to drop in and say sorry. we will meet on other threads!

i'm glad child vaccines seem to be around the corner and cases are drastically on the decline here, because holy fuck. he's such an anti-science fuck and the new surgeon general he appointed is just as bad, a yes man.

― Gardyloominati (Neanderthal)

Death rates remain astonishingly high, but it looks like COVID burned through the unjabbed.

death is a lagging indicator tho, they'll fall after cases do

yeah they should be falling over the next several weeks.

KM you're a don