2021 nba offseason draft free agency etc

not sure where this idea that zion is some sort of alltime bad defender came from, hes a young player who play bad young player d on a bad defensive team

Less than 12 months ago people were arguing that Zion was such a sui generis basketball genius that he was a stone lock as a defensive force.

Now we are wondering if the Pels might not be losing that much when he's not on the court.

Wherefore art thou, Zion?

On IR, I suppose.

he's a point guard on offense but a center on defense it doesn't compute

not sure thats true, his natural defensive position is prob 4, but logically theres no problem with a player who dribbles a lot playing whatever position on D

https://i.imgur.com/R071x9R.png

Less than 12 months ago people were arguing that Zion was such a sui generis basketball genius that he was a stone lock as a defensive force.

― Hannibal Lecture (PBKR), Thursday, October 14, 2021 3:59 PM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

pretty sure this never happened, is there some sort of zion hysteria happening

anyway he lead the league in paint attempts while converting them at 70% no the pelicans wont be better without him

only half a foot and like 30 percent body fat difference between zion and giannis!

i literally have no idea what youre talking about here

that comparing zion and giannis as defensive players is ridiculous

thats clearly not what i was doing

logically, there is no problem w/ a player who dribbles a lot playing whatever position defensively, unless that player is consistently out of shape, can't stay in front of drivers, and can't protect the rim

thats just called being bad at defense, a condition which many nba players suffer from

if you're bad at defense and your team can play a big man on the floor it's probably not a huge deal, if you're bad at defense and your team can't play another big man on the floor bcuz you're huge and score in the paint on like every possession, it's more of an issue

pels were 29-32 w/ zion last year. no idea what their schedule is like to open this year but i feel like it's conceivable they could hang around .500 w/o him, and probably finish around .500 overall after he gets back \(o_O)/

they also might be a complete disaster w/ him not playing. they also might be a complete disaster w/ him playing. bad franchise

i mean they did start steven adams with zion last year and the pels were still a good offensive team, this year theyve got jonas who can actually shoot a little, ideally youd get a center who can bomb 3s and guard the rim, a myles turner or what have you, tho obvs those guys dont grow on trees

not sure where this idea that zion is some sort of alltime bad defender came from, hes a young player who play bad young player d on a bad defensive team

haha. damn.

i do agree w/ matt that zion doesn't have young player defensive problems as much as he has specific issues related to his skillset/body/current level of athleticism/stamina

i know weve had this discussion before but i dont see any reason why zion couldnt be a least a decent defender, hes the strongest and most athletic person in the world and has very quick feet, which is not to say hes the ideal defender but if he just figured out nba D as many young players do as they get experience and played soundly making the correct rotations and whatnot hed prob be a least fine, i could even see him being disruptive getting a bunch of steals and blocks and then turning them into dunks like he did in college, but anyway zions got bigger problems than being bad at d at the moment

i could even see him being disruptive getting a bunch of steals and blocks and then turning them into dunks like he did in college, but anyway zions got bigger problems than being bad at d at the moment

― lag∞n, Thursday, October 14, 2021 4:33 PM (eighteen seconds ago)

same but he needs to get in much better shape which is the central problem as we all know. if you could play zion at center on defense knowing that you hemorrhage points at the rim but cause some turnovers and block some shots, with his offense, you could probably have something. but right now there is all the bad stuff and none of the activity

obviously zion being fat is threatening his career altogether which is very sad, i think he should try to not be fat anymore, i would like to see that

per 100 possessions last year

nikola vucevic

steals: 1.3
blocks: 1.0

zion

steals: 1.3
blocks: 0.9

it sorta feels like a trae young thing to me right now where it's clear he's an amazing offensive player (tho zion is better) but it's not clear that you can actually win games w/ him until you get a lot of good players around him who also fit correctly

its bad dont get me wrong, idk if its just being overweight or if hes afraid of getting injured or what but he went from record levels of steals and blocks in college to vucevic levels in the pros, tho tbf i would not have expect vooch to average 1.3 steals a game, good job vooch xp

It’s really distressing that when he gets injured he gets fatter

well it kinda makes sense...

tbf i would not have expect vooch to average 1.3 steals a game, good job vooch xp

― lag∞n, Thursday, October 14, 2021 4:42 PM (eight minutes ago)

well that's 1.3 steals per 100 possessions. his steals per game was 0.9

ah

have we ever heard anything about what zions eating what his plan is for not eating his way out of the league

xps -zion certainly has trainers who've put together a regimen of diet and exercise designed to avoid him getting fatter when he gets injured. one suspects he cheats on it regularly and gets away with it because he's "the franchise".

I’m sure he knows that when he gains weight that means he will just knock people around on his way to the basket even more easily

i wonder how much of it is zion self sabotaging over whatever beef he has w/ the organization & wanting to get out of there, which i don't really understand but it seems like maybe if him and the organization had any sort of positive relationship he would be in better shape and/or they could demand he be in better shape

def some weird shit around it like last year they were talking about not caring how heavy he was just making sure that he was flexible balanced and whatnot, which maybe they were just being nice in public but maybe theyre actually saying that to him idk to not piss him off

they're stuck in this feedback loop where they're a bad organization so they have to bend over backwards to please their no 1 pick but exerting little to no discipline over him continues to make him a bad organization. they did put him on a minutes limit when he first started playing that apparently his team hated, there is clearly some personality/communication issue that goes beyond just the black and white facts of the disputes but i feel like there's better organizations who would not let a player of his caliber just be consistently out of shape

really wanted the hawks to win the lotto that year

His defensive rotations are atrocious and he’s not good enough at protecting the rim to be a center. He’s slow and ponderous on defense which isn’t a “young player D thing.” And now he’s fat and has a broken foot

― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, October 14, 2021 1:27 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

dropping the hammer lol. add to this that he doesnt want to be in New Orleans and he keeps getting hurt while playing at like 80% most of the time.

i started a warriors thread so we dont spam up the main thread with too much dubs talk. same idea as the celtics 2010 thread.
golden state warriors thread

Here in Brooklyn, Nets will play big lineup with Kyrie Irving (researching) still out. Harden at point, Harris and Durant as wings, Millsap and Claxton up front. T'wolves playing most of their real players except Russell, so this should be a relatively realistic NBA game.

— John Hollinger (@johnhollinger) October 14, 2021

"(researching)" lol

lol

they're stuck in this feedback loop where they're a bad organization so they have to bend over backwards to please their no 1 pick but exerting little to no discipline over him continues to make him a bad organization. they did put him on a minutes limit when he first started playing that apparently his team hated, there is clearly some personality/communication issue that goes beyond just the black and white facts of the disputes but i feel like there's better organizations who would not let a player of his caliber just be consistently out of shape

― J0rdan S., Thursday, October 14, 2021 5:03 PM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's been pointed out that the whatever the pels were doing worked and he stayed healthy, but the "burst minutes" thing seemed awful from a player's perspective, like this isn't ice hockey. but the issues clearly go deeper than any one thing and the combination of his family's long and documented history of meddling plus an organization that is forever on the skids just isn't going to end well.

idk about y’all but I’m ready for some semi-meaningful hoops

The thing I’m most excited about following is Cam Reddish’s development. I’d like to see him starting over Bogdanovic at some point

got invited a week ago to that nets/bucks preseason game and dude with the tickets cancelled on me this afternoon, sadface

aww what the heck

he has season tickets though so i can hardly complain, maybe later

lol this season's gonna start with Kyrie & Simmons both starting for the same teams isnt it

I’ve done a 180 on Josh giddey, I think the Thunder got that pick right. Most upside at that spot.

hes legit

I’ve done a 180 on Josh giddey, I think the Thunder got that pick right. Most upside at that spot.

― Matt Armstrong, Thursday, October 14, 2021 9:40 PM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

u see the vision