Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

I couldn’t find the image of this graph in my ecopy of the book, although it is mentioned in a footnote

This one?

always been something fascinating about Jonathan Richman's teenaged Velvet Underground fandom. thinking about this drawing he made for an article in a fanzine in 1968, when he was 17, predicting their trajectory pic.twitter.com/HeZfNASRMn

— Mark Richardson (@MarkRichardson) October 17, 2021

If you follow the lines, the Beatles would likely intersect with the VU right around when Big Star covers "Femme Fatale."

Dylan's been known to play ski bars too! Hopefully there's footage, w sweaters.
I wonder if Jackson B also resented playing with Nico? Still wondering about this, from my paste upthread:
Noonan mentions seeing boy Browne as accompanist for Nico and El Cohen (singing together, I hope): http://www.richieunterberger.com/noonan.html

xpost w Steve Cropper sitting in.

xxp confused by the "Airplane" line on JR's graph - he thinks they took a dive before Volunteers(?)

Curious what the divergent Who lines mean. Also, Richman apparently rates them higher than the Velvets through WL/WH, which I wouldn't have expected.

(And the PBS Rock & Roll / BBC Dancing In The Street series mentioned upthread doesn't mention the Who once, not even in passing.)

This was really drawn in 1968? So does hitting that "death" baseline mean he predicted Hendrix's early death (off by a year)?

(And the PBS Rock & Roll / BBC Dancing In The Street series mentioned upthread doesn't mention the Who once, not even in passing.) Surprised by this. You'd think they'd at least get a mention in the British Invasion episode.

I guess (based on the "Made-It Line") he is thinking about commercial success/death?

What would he have considered "Art-Rock" in 1968? The Left Banke? Moody Blues? Forever Changes?

You'd think they'd at least get a mention in the British Invasion episode.

Nope, but to be fair, the Who were late -- didn't get to the US until 1967. I think it had to do in part with the focus of each episode. The Who weren't blues purists, so they weren't covered in "Crossroads"; nor were they psychedelic, so no mention in "Blues in Technicolor." But the producers managed to shoehorn Kiss into the same episode that covered the Velvets, so...?

Frank Z?

Richman's chart needs a Z-axis for The Red Krayola.

Nope, but to be fair, the Who were late -- didn't get to the US until 1967. I think it had to do in part with the focus of each episode. The Who weren't blues purists, so they weren't covered in "Crossroads"; nor were they psychedelic, so no mention in "Blues in Technicolor."

Makes sense. I noticed something similar with other important artists besides the Who. For example, no way was Robert Palmer going to let Prince go unmentioned, but given the way the series was set-up, they basically shoehorned him into the hip-hop episode with a brief clip from Sign 'O' the Times and a one or two-sentence mention about taking rock "to new heights" with his edgier content. I don't want to knock the series because it's great - MUCH better than the reactionary knock-off produced for home video by Dick Clark Productions - but the way it's set up means certain artists aren't going to fit well into the narrative flow. The biggest omission as pointed out by Michael Azerrad is how the entire '80s underground gets NO mention at all, a huge gaping hole between '70s punk and the alternative era.

The biggest omission as pointed out by Michael Azerrad is how the entire '80s underground gets NO mention at all, a huge gaping hole between '70s punk and the alternative era.

Yeah, I haven't watched that episode in a while, but I seem to remember it went from the Pistols to a clip of David Byrne to "and then for a long time nothing happened. Until Nirvana."

I get that lines have to be drawn in terms of who gets left in/left out, but like you said, the whole way the series was set up meant that glaring omissions were inevitable. I think Springsteen only got a (somewhat dismissive) passing mention. But it is definitely vastly superior to that other awful series, and the funk episode in particular is almost perfect.

Isn't Cale quoted in places as enjoying playing bass during the 60s. He just was also the guy who would need to be playing either viola or keyboards where they were used during his tenure which was why Sterling would need to take over bass from him when he did play those other instruments. I can't find the quote but remember having read it.

Yes, I think Cale enjoyed playing the bass, Sterl was the one who hated it.

“That’s my brother Sterl on bass” just doesn’t quite have the right ring to it.

If I recall, Robert Palmer didn't give a shit about The Who. I just checked my copy of the book of Dancing in the Streets, and they only get a single mention, in a sidebar, and only in relation to what Jeff Beck did in the Yardbirds scene in Blow-up. The Velvet Underground however were very much his thing, part of what made him move to New York, and he told a story about how he was set to audition for them when Cale left, but missed the appointment because he was wasted.

Isn't Cale quoted in places as enjoying playing bass during the 60s.

The bonus track on the CD reissue of "Horses" is a live cover of "My Generation" and when it gets to the bass solo, Patti kinda bellows "JOHN. CALE." before Cale plays a note-for-note rendition of the Entwhistle solo

If I recall, Robert Palmer didn't give a shit about The Who.

No, he liked the Who, at least that was my strong impression after reading his mixed and negative assessments of early '80s Who releases of all things. Some of it seems to be inaccessible now, but if you search the NY Times archives for his articles on Townshend and the Who from that time, his appreciation for their earlier stuff frames some of his disappointment in the post-Moon era.

I could see Palmer being so disgusted by the ‘89 reunion tour that he just gave up on the Who (as others did).

To bring it back to the Velvets, I read — I thought it was in Up-Tight, but I can’t find it — that Cale went back to Wales for the holidays in ‘65-‘66 and brought back a bunch of UK 45s, including “My Generation,” “Anyway Anyhow Anywhere,” and the Small Faces’ “Whatcha Gonna Do About It.” He and Lou listened to these back in NYC, and either Cale or Lou said something like, “If we don’t put out a record soon, we’ll look like latecomers to the feedback party.”

Can’t find that either.

Kind of remember it being mentioned in the Peel Slowly and See liners and/or something in the Velvet Underground Companion.

I remember that story about the trip back to the UK & returning with singles etc. & would place it in Uptight yeah.

Ah yes, it’s in the Peel Slowly notes:

”But the most important things I brought back to New York from those visits,” he continues, were records by the Small Faces and the Who, where noise started showing up. The guitar solo in [the Small Faces’] “Whatcha Gonna Do About It” is all crackle and feedback. I said, ‘Shit, Lou, we gotta get a deal. They’re catching up to us!”

Walter Powers: “I was the lead singer in The Velvet Underground.”

Gotta feel weird about trotting that one out.

So I was reading this excerpt from Cale's autobiography about the reunion and its fallout (tweeted by our own Elvis Telecom)

“Billy would intone with a Greek chorus' clarity what was troubling Lou at that precise moment and would go on to explain it to himself, Lou, and the rest before things got worse.”

VU breaks up for the final time, 1993. https://t.co/yQ721vsU8b

— Chris Barrus (@quartzcity) October 17, 2021

...and Cale mentions discussing the possibility of a reunion with Jay Leno when he & Sterling appeared on The Tonight Show, and holy shit they did!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRUqmReGmpI

The first of at least two appearances Cale did on the show. Leno had some hip music booker back then.

Cale on Leno in '96

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtTJpvyqjzQ

Is that BJ Cole on lap steel? I saw Cale and Cole in Central Park around that time. With Stereolab.

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/26/arts/pop-review-braving-the-full-sunlight.html

Jay said he saw the VU at the Boston Tea Party in 1969 in that first clip. Whoda thunkit?

He's so enthusiastic about it too! I don't think Cale had the heart to tell him he wasn't in the band by then.

This probably has been posted itt before, but Look At This Boston Tea Party Gig Calendar From May '69!

I think Leno saw a bunch of shows there/then; I remember when the Kinks were on The Tonight Show in ‘93 and he excitedly mentioned how he’d seen them at the Tea Party. And now I’m wondering if seeing Rahsaan Roland Kirk there somehow led to Leno touring as Kirk’s opening act (yes, that really happened).

ok I didn't know what La Monte Young looked like and I did not expect him to look like he was going to Sturgis

That whole “Greek chorus’s clarity” section of What’s Welsh for Zen is excepted here: https://www.austinchronicle.com/music/2000-04-14/76807/

Which I think was already posted recently upthread under the heading “Lou being a dick.”

Difficult to keep track of “Lou being a dick” posts tbf.

Which also includes this cherce nugget:

Because I," blah blah blah, very close to what he'd done in 1968 about "Stephanie Says" when Sterling said to him, "That's a beautiful viola part," and Lou said, "Yeah, that's what I wrote," kind of claiming authorship of the viola part. And now he said to Moe, "Of course, Moe, you don't know the difference, because you won't ever get this opportunity again in your little gigs."

So yeah, to your point.

I feel it was pretty key to the mood of the whole endeavor that Lou wasn't around to participate in the interviews. The film did so much to define the space around the band, and any achievement on the scale of the VU is ineffable, and Reed was an inherently defensive and misdirecting narrator. Having the very center of the storm out of reach somehow added to the effectiveness.

I felt the same way about the Big Star documentary and Chilton

re: that Cale bit on Leno… I saw Cale a bunch in the early 90s, and in 92 his thing as it was on Leno there was playing with Sterling and the string section…they did a gig at the NYU student center on Washington Sq (he lived across the park on Washington Mews so that wasn't much of a hike to get home)… and in what turned out to be a dry run for the 93 tour, Lou showed up at the end to play some very fecund fusillades on "Forever Changed"; it wasn't "I heard Her call My Name" but it was pretty fucking exciting! and I saw that SummerStage show with Stereolab which musta been after the european tour…I was out of my mind stoked for Stereolab… and then in 95 Lamonte Young played with what he called a blues band at the Knitting factory… long, punishing drones, with Young pounding the keys and beaming through his mangy-ass beard like a enthralled four year old, encouraging his band to go deeper and harder, not at all like a studious minimalist academic… and yes his sturgis wear is awesome; I don't think Steve Reich dresses like that, although maybe Terry Riley has?… I feel like an asshole for living in NYC for 30 years and never going to the Dream House…

I have that Forever Bad Blues Band 2cd Just Stomping which i think is a couple of live sets. Just intonation blues.

Great point, bendy!

In a way that may also be another reason why the absence of Doug was probably for the best, him being a Lou proxy and stand-in. As well as foil of course, but there are more than enough of those to go around.

I felt the same way about the Big Star documentary and Chilton

If Reed was alive, he would've either shut down the documentary before it started, or demanded final cut. And if he'd gotten final cut, he still would've trashed the film in interviews.

Yes, exactly.

If Reed was alive, he would've either shut down the documentary before it started, or demanded final cut. And if he'd gotten final cut, he still would've trashed the film in interviews.

Indeed.

Here something to read whilst waiting for Tyler’s return:

https://www.uncut.co.uk/features/a-velvet-underground-playlist-129772/

Ace!