Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

Yeah, it's a good progression. Now, there are a few rawky, jammy things on the complete(?) legit Matrix tapes that seemed dated.

Still want a country duet ov "Pale Blue Eyes."

The VU became more conventional by design. Cale did an interview around 2012 where he stated that he wanted the VU to go in a more abrasive direction and Lou wanted to do prettier songs that were more commercial, and the impasse forced him to leave. (I *think* this was from 2012 because IIRC he also complained about the endless remastering of the catalog in light of the upcoming 45th anniversary box set for the debut album. I think he said "the resolution isn't there" and thought it was pointless to revisit their master tapes.) I think the progression actually works in their favor - it shores up the idea that they knew exactly what they were doing with their earlier avant-garde work because they could make great, timeless commercial music as well.

Also many years ago, I remember an older friend (not from the U.S.) who met up with me and some others straight from an Irish bar in Evanston, and she told me and several others "hey, I was getting a drink at this place when this concert started up, and the guy was really great! His name was John Cale - do you know him?"

xp Yeah, it's kind of the classic progression, isn't it? It would have been weird for them to get more abrasive, IMO. The change-up from WL/WH to LP3 was sort of that iconic "Blow everyone's minds by getting quiet now" move.

The most punk thing is, like, not to be punk at all, man!

WL/WH definitely seems weirder to me than the debut, otherwise the progression works

― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.)

yes I was considering this qualifier, I think I agree

and the wild side-long improv stuff e.g. "Chic Mystique", "Nothing Song", "Melody Laughter", etc basically predate the 1st Lp and are way more in drone/La Monte Young territory

btw I LOVED how much LMY-related content was in this

According to that trustworthy source "YouTube commentator", apparently Neil Young is the only other act than the Velvets to play a brand new song at his Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction.

In its own way the third album is the most subversive.

It uses familiar acoustic arrangements to sneak in their midt subversive material.

The documentary should have only been about the recording of "Murder Mystery," of course.

(Perhaps slightly more seriously, I was bummed to not get anything about "The Gift" at least.)

I was just thinking about how the first four Royal Trux albums kind of, very roughly, approximate the stylistic progression of the four VU albums (don’t know why I never realized that before).

Yeah, good progression, but I still don't see what makes them a conventional band, other than conventional in their own terms (like the sneaky acoustic instruments that Alfred mentions): you learn what elements are likely to be involved, but not quite (sometimes at all) what the combination will be. Like those luvstruck souls in the lyrics...

The laidback instrumentation on the third album is also mainly undistorted electric guitars rather than acoustics; the effect is more doo-wop than James Taylor.

I'll buy that but the let's say softer approach makes the likes of "Some Kinda Love" queerer.

My own fave version of that is on Live In 1969---or is it Live 69--with the spoken intro, the slinky cowbell, the build, and of course, La-te-ta-ta-tah..."

Whatta ballad.

i just wanna say, as a Velvets novice this thread has been very informative!

also: wow you guys are nerds lol j/k j/k

Oh, word, it's true. (Also, Loaded's "New Age" starting like a Tennessee Williams-Andy Warhol soap opera, steadily morphing into a non-ironic-seeming Rock Anthem, but stately with it, incl. the big ol/ warm guitar twang, which was a familiar element, but now in a VU state of mind---and then those other verses, maybe other lives, on Live In 1969or whatever it is.

Hey, their biggest fan was an über-nerd, as recently discussed!

My own fave version of that is on _Live In 1969_---or is it _Live 69_--with the spoken intro, the slinky cowbell, the build, and of course, La-te-ta-ta-tah..."

Does anyone know what the supposed intended version of Loaded is supposed to be? I've never found a clear cut answer but there have been two sets of changes over the years.

First they unearthed unedited versions of "Sweet Jane," "Rock & Roll" and I guess two longer versions of "New Age," and then the 45th anniversary box set moved "Head Held High" after "I Found a Reason." I was surprised by the latter, but if you sequence it that way on older editions, you'll noticed that the vocalists all hold a note that would bridge both tracks, except they get faded out and back in again.

I still prefer the shorter, originally released version of"Sweet Jane" although I do like the live version on 1969 which has that other part that had gone missing, but I guess I also still kind of prefer most of the US Beatles albums, don't know if it is equivalent or not.

And I guess I just don't know.

The big difference for me in terms of Loaded is that Loaded feels like a 70s record and the other ones feel like 60s records

And no I can't actually explain why it feels that way

and of course it was released in the 70s but a lot of stuff from 70 feels 60s

The Live '69 "Sweet Jane" also the version the Cowboy Junkies covered.

^^A lot of us old youngers intro to the song.

There's a story about all their distortion effects getting stolen at JFK airport at a crucial time which lead to the cleaner sound. I think it is Sterling quoted as saying it in Uptight but I don't have a copy handy. Quite timely if so. Though Lou was writing possibly more melodic material, I guess the difference is that Cale had balanced that out with dissonance on earlier lps like within the same song. Do wonder what the results of them still having effects at hand would have been or if they would have veered away anyway.

I managed to get an original copy of "Soundsville" a year or so ago, it's not that expensive and it all sounds good.

There were more 'early Lou' tracks in the doc, a few I've not heard before. The credits showed four tracks by The Jades, but as I say I only though two got released...

(xp) Don't believe that story. Even if they did have their effects stolen it would have been easy enough for them to hire replacements. Also there's the little matter of the guitar solo on "What Goes On".

Oh man, Loaded was the first album I heard and it was bafflingly conventional. It was 83 or 84 and I was totally immersing myself in punk, and the blue Rolling Stone record guide said that the VU were the start of punk rock with their dark gritty stories and droning and Mo Tucker's primitive perfect drumming. So I went a searchin' and Loaded was the only record in print at that point. Sesame Street cover art. Okay. I knew the song Rock 'n Roll from the radio, but I associated it with jive talkin' white guy rock, like Spill the Wine. Songs about cowboys and trains. "New Age" reminded me of Madame George. "Oh Sweet Nuthin" sounded like Marshal Tucker's "Can't You See". I liked it all fine, but I listened to those drums and tried to figure out how the hell this was supposed to lead to Stiff Little Fingers.

^another booming post from bendy

Couldn’t find anything about Kennedy Airport Heist in Uptight nor am I inclined to buy into it.

TS Uptight vs. up-tight

The gear story is true, and has been told in most books/stories about the band. Iirc, Sterling said they used surplus ammo & heavy firearms cases, which may have made them more enticing to thieves.

As for replacing the equipment, the way I understood it was that some stuff was hard to replace custom gear, other things were manufacturer comps and/or stuff Warhol's connections provided them in '66/7, channels not opened to them at that later date. I think also by them Sesnick was managing them so pursestrings were (up)tight.

But, judging by "Stephanie Says" and "Temptation Inside Your Heart" from Cale's final session, there was already a pivot towards Pop-ier material in motion.

I had a similar experience but with the third album. My next-door neighbor's father was a guitar player, really into, I don't know, classic rock and Al DiMeola. I was into the Doors and Floyd and maybe getting into REM and college rock. Somehow the Velvets came up in conversation and he told me it was the most violent, decadent, dirty stuff out there. That stuck with me and a few years later I tossed the dice on the tape of the third album, expecting some crazy heavy drugged out violent shit. Imagine my surprise. I remember lying in bed with my walkman thinking "I do like this...but I have no idea what that guy was talking about". Then Murder Mystery came on and I was mesmerized and I remember thinking "I guess this was what he was talking about?" I don't think I got any of the other records for another 2 or 3 years.

Self-XP And it's not like they'd been allergic to Pop moves before: VU & Nico kicks off with perhaps the most blatant Top 40 attempt in their whole catalogue!

I bought the first album based on REM covering the Velvets and reading that they were Important. It was probably the first time I heard an album that wasn't produced very well and I was shocked that something like that would be released! It took me a few days to wrap my head around it and then I was off and running.

I distinctly remember when Peel Slowly and See came out. It was like a religious experience.

I was trying to formulate the impact of the albums the other day. The first one feels like it opened the floodgates for new subjects and sounds, which is to say the *idea* of the band. The second one was about the ragged in-the-red *feel* of the band. And the third one was about the *songs." Or something like that. It's been a while since I've heard a band described as VU-inspired, because practically every indie band is sort of VU inspired, but I always took comparisons to mean either "sounds ragged and avant garde minimal and full of feedback" (like, I dunno, Sonic Youth) or "sounds quiet and pretty like the third record" (Galaxie 500/Luna, Feelies). Though of course there are bands like Yo La Tengo that go both ways. Or a band like Spiritualized that crosses the themes of the first record with the approach of the second, but not much of the third (or fourth). I do sort of feel like the Cowboy Junkies cover was a pretty essential keystone.

Equipment story as told by Sterling can be found in Unterberger's White Light/White Heat but then Doug denies it.

Yes, was about to say that I saw an interview with Doug Yule where he says as much.

An aspect of the band that's always struck me is how they remain one of the few acts, let alone of its stature, to still have an air of mystery surrounding it. I remember when they reunited for those live gigs seeing a lot of people note they'd never had any idea who played what on what song before. Can't think of many bands like that. I dunno, New Order?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxaCZZcECE8

Or who sung what! The Matrix boxset helpfully has Lou's guitar in one speaker and Sterling's in another, for those for whom the guitar playing is an area of confusion.

(xp)

Wham-bam, who shot Sam?

Spot on about the air of mystery! This is probably why I don't much rate Lou's solo work, he ended up the most averse to mystery. Even Tucker's solo work emanates from this domestic indie hovel that's mysterious compared to Reed's street life. Nico is all mystery, and Cale tears himself in every direction.