Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

No, it was those two songs, at least according to my previous two posts on the subject.

The third album is essential and is just as mysterious and deep as the prior albums. All the rest is terrific and great, but Loaded, VU, live stuff all show them as a real BAND. As opposed to a broadcast from a drug den at 5am.

i appreciate the audacity of the last sentence, but those first two albums have lots of great "band" moments. sister ray is a 5am kind of song but it's also all about the velvets both listening and playing off each other and also going off on their own individual tangents. that is a very "band" song, a result that come only come about from a group of people making it happen in real time together, as a band.

"Oh Lord, suck waiting for my man in Lodi again..."

I thought that was just rhetorical flourish. Although I appreciate your rebuttal. Actually tbh I agree with that other post, but probably also your post as well. How can that be?
xp

lou reed albums i have listened to many times:

transformer
coney island baby

some times:

street hassle
rock n' roll animal
sally can't dance
lou reed
new york
berlin

once or twice

songs for drella
lulu
metal machine music

No blue mask ever?

it's true that they become more of a "band" 4-piece kind of jam band as they go, particularly after yule joins and cale leaves. but there were always elements of that there. i think cale's presence added another element to the jam band thing, and he was also playing with reed when reed was still fresh from his pro songwriter period, dashing off little 2-3 minute gems like all tomorrow's parties with an absurd frequency. maybe the original version of art pop, especially considering their origin story?

No blue mask ever?

i don't think so! i'll check it out. i gotta say, i very much sympathize the view that lou reed's voice was unbearable after a certain point, and i'm not sure at what point in the 80s it happens but it always makes me like him less so i stick to the earlier stuff

I actually cooled off on The Blue Mask over the years. Much as I love Quine, but not going to argue with those who still love it.

I kind of agree with Cow_Art that Street Hassle is the best, or the one most like, most evocative of The Velvets, or something like that, but even that one has a little filler, although I can live with it. Also like Karl’s top two a lot, Coney Island Baby being another one with a standout title track that makes the whole album ( although maybe I prefer the live version on Take No Prisoners ) and Transformer for being enjoyably commercial-sounding without being too slick, with the kind of session players that really, um, add value. Anton Fig isn’t on it, at least least time I checked.

I've never found any useful way to explore the fact that "Sunday Morning" sounds extremely similar to "Mary in the Morning" (at least Glen Campbell's version). The banana album came out 12th March 1967 and Al Martino's (first) version of MITM came out in May 1967 (recorded April 5 apparently, written by Johnny Cymbal and Mike Rashkow before that, Library of Congress registration says "Appl. states prev. reg. 14Mar67") so it's hard to infer plagiarism. Am I crazy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N0be6N0n6s

listening to blue mask now, it's great! will immediately leap to near the top of the "some times" tier, i think.

"coney island baby" is my favorite solo song

i don't think so! i'll check it out. i gotta say, i very much sympathize the view that lou reed's voice was unbearable after a certain point, and i'm not sure at what point in the 80s it happens but it always makes me like him less so i stick to the earlier stuff

― typo hell #14: neanderthal started writing it not know how it (Karl Malone), Saturday, October 23, 2021 6:23 PM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I actually cooled off on The Blue Mask over the years. Much as I love Quine, but not going to argue with those who still love it.

― Double Chocula (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday,

I only started to care about Lou Reed in the 1980s.

I like Sally Can't Dance and Coney Island Baby and half of Transformer, but he really got going in the '80s.

well, i only stopped caring about him in the 80s, so

He mastered the offhand gesture in the '80s. Shit like this! I love it. He nails a mood and vibe. He knew how to write and sing songs for men.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4SYBROfHTA

sorry to break the chain, but just finished listening to Another View, and – gawd, that single-chord strum/solo/breakdown in this take of "Rock 'n Roll" is just... *chef's kiss*

His singing started to go off in the late 70s tbh, "The Bells" is full of bizarre attempts at different voices, some of which are unintentionally hilarious - he could definitely still sing when he tried though. To be honest, if you compare his singing live even in the early 70s to his singing live with the Velvets it's nowhere near as good - though that might have been down to him being permanently wrecked in the 70s.

I get tired of Reed's voice quickly and I think Cale's high points are a lot more interesting, tbh. Paris 1919, Fragments Of A Rainy Season, Fear, New Depression Music (or any other bootleg that has that 1984 BFBS radio session), Sabotage Live, the Rockpalast double CD... (and Nico's intense 1971 Peel Session with that small pump organ Cale gave her)

I’ve gone through Lou’s solo output chronologically (altho I think I missed a few albums & I have to admit it was a bit of a chore at times). There’s precious little there I care to revisit much, whereas I still can’t stop listening to the VU over & over.

The Blue Mask used to be a favourite, but there’s some awfully cringey writing on it. I think I’d like it better as an instrumental album.

I think I could probably do a CD-80 of the high points of solo Lou & be forever satisfied (except for Metal Machine Music, which I genuinely enjoy as ambient skronk)

Ecstasy is a helluva album to go out on if you don't count The Raven.

Transformer and MMM are perfect.

My take is very close to hardcore dilettante’s.

In general I love Alfred’s posts and his lists but not going to follow him on this one, sorry.

With Lou vs. John I guess it’s many moments of genius saddled with too high self-regard as misunderstood genius combined with careless and busted technique vs. overall better musicianship, interpersonal skills and articulated aesthetics along with quite a few moments of inspiration and some boring but harmless moments easy to avoid and not propped up by a cult of followers.

No apologies about a CD-R r playlist. Mine would be one in which 1982-2000 dominated (M&L excepted; that one's a slog).

Cale in the '70s >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reed in the '70s

Reed in the '80s and '90s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cale in the '80s and '90s

I love "Turn To Me" so much

idk if I think Cale's higher points are higher than Lou's but god damn Cale had an amazing run in the 70's and was/is sporadically great thereafter

lol xposts

Didn’t really intend to use genius twice in such rapid succession, but hey, I’m just an average with an average vocabulary and typing skills, unlike Moe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS8oyl1gygs

Wait, Lou wrote a song about that? How did he know? He got the jump on my psyche once again, the way only a true artist, ordained by a genuine poet, can.

That one's just blah, so point for you.

"Secret Corrida" by Cale (1996) and "Ecstasy" by Reed (2000) are great "late" songs that anyone who likes any era of their music should hear.

(admittedly neither would have fit on White Light/White Heat

Someone made a comment elsewhere, I believe it was noted John Cale enthusiast La Lechera, that one of the things that makes Cale’s use of the English language so appealing is that he is not a native speaker.

Yet another thing Iggy and Bowie do better than Lou, in addition to reading a lot and remembering what they read, is playing the role of Average Guy when it suits them.

At least Lou was not as prolific as Bob Pollard which makes the mixtape playlist thing a little easier.

"Secret Corrida" by Cale (1996) and "Ecstasy" by Reed (2000) are great "late" songs that anyone who likes any era of their music should hear.

Linking this Quine interview for the umpteenth time: http://www.furious.com/perfect/quine.html

Found Walking On Locusts on YT last night (LP not on Spotify), and was disappointed to discover the album take of "Dancing Undercover" pales in comparison to the Leno version.

Cale also torn shit up on a Game Show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mqO-xsRyTM

Which I believe is the beginning of the doc, or nearly so.

My favorite video of John Cale is the Old Grey Whistle Test version of "Dying on the Vine" with Ollie Halsall on guitar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-q-GGiAt8Q

Cale’s use of the English language

I've been listening to Shifty Adventures in Nookie Wood, and it reinforced that, as a lyricist, Cale excels at setting a scene, and convincing you that something is at stake. "Scotland Yard":

When the hungry days are gone
Then came the hungry nights
Holding on to what you've got
Standing in the spotlight
They'll show you mostly
What they want you to see
Walking the city at midnight
And whistling in the dark

or "Mary":

There's a window in my mind
You can see in
Just look and you'll want to sigh
It inspires you to look away

I guess to describe him as a non-native speaker is not quite correct. His father was an English speaker but he himself only spoke Welsh at home for the first several years of his life.

That one's just blah, so point for you.

On the "I've Got a Secret" segment from the doc, it was fascinating and incongruous to see who was on the panel that was watching John Cale play: Betsy Palmer, who 17 years later played Jason's mom in the first Friday the 13th movie, as well as Bess Myerson, the former Miss America who became a criminal in the 1980s.

Sounds hot, will have to look her up (on the Google that is)
Welsh accent, from land of coal mines and bards, serves him well, w the rasp and lilt (thinking of having seen him touring behind Sabotage/Live: "Now Deeerfrance is gonna help us out here..." sometimes surfacing on records too)
Lots of good talk here too:John Cale S/D

Bess Myerson was also the first (and only) Jewish Miss America, and later acted as an alleged beard for Ed Kotch.

Deerfrance? Don’t know much about her but sending her warm thoughts through the mental theremin since her husband just passed. Also just found this song she did about Nico.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnRAPnEiIeA

criminal in the 1980s
Because of her relationship with Andy Capasso. Almost forgot about that.

Myerson also had a shoplifting problem, which I’m willing to overlook, because who among us…