Velvet Underground Trainspotting Question

"Maybe I was Wrong?!" to change my major, I meant.

Good post, dow

“––your protest guests?"

Oh, is that the line? I’ve never understood what he’s saying there!

I always thought it was "All you protest kids". Sorry for not paying enough attention, Lou.

Same

I think the first version of the song I knew was the live version from Rock ‘n’ Roll Animal (on a Lou best-of tape), where he drops that little aside.

Seems like the intranetz agrees with the kids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afam2nIae4o

Wiki's The Velvet Underground and Nico chronicle is fun x v. comprehensive, with lots of footnotes, although editor says needs more----I shoulda read it sooner:
45th Anniversary Super Deluxe edition
On October 1, 2012, Universal released a 6-CD box set of the album.[74] It features the previously available mono and stereo mixes as discs one and two respectively. Disc one contains as bonus tracks additional alternate versions of "All Tomorrow's Parties", "European Son", "Heroin", "All Tomorrow's Parties" (alternate instrumental version), and "I'll Be Your Mirror". Disc two contains the same bonus tracks as the prior deluxe version's second disc. Disc three is Nico's Chelsea Girl in its entirety and the Scepter Studios acetate (see below) in its entirety occupies disc 4. Discs 5 and 6 contain a previously unreleased live performance from 1966. According to the essay by music critic and historian Richie Unterberger contained within the set, the source for the show is the only audio tape of acceptable quality recording during singer Nico's tenure in the band. The essay also clarifies that the absence of any DVD materials in the box set is due to the fact that none of the band's shows were filmed, in spite of their heavy reliance on multimedia visuals.[75]

There is this rehearsal film (was any of the footage used in the Haynes doc)?

I've also read that Todd Haynes couldn't find any film footage w sound, so matched it, to a degree, w excerpts of concert tapes.

(WSJ reviewer said that, referencing press materials I assume.)

VU is one of those bands that had been box-setted and expanded-editioned to death; though I guess it’s unavoidable when you’re legendary and have just a few albums.

All the EPI footage I've seen is silent, Super-8 looking stuff, that as Dow points out is synched-up with period live tracks or studio cuts. There's a nice clip of a speedy Edie Sedgwick twirling in front of Lou that's been in a bunch of docs.

oh yeah, I've seen what you linked, morrisp: The Velvet Underground and Nico: A Symphony of Sound[: filmed at the Factory, so maybe Warhol's People wouldn't be reasonable about rights? Although I saw it on the 'Tube several years ago---Web Sheriff may have nabbed it---real good, anyway. Nico's lttle son is well-behaved, while Mom just holds a tambourine and looks around (it's instrumental jamtyme).

The clip of the Velvets / Doug doing “Candy Says” was so well reconstructed, you could believe it was part of a full performance.

those pics of Nico's kid at the Factory have always haunted me.

The whole thing about the kid or “Le Kid” as James Young refers to him, is pretty sad. In another wrinkle, I think early this morning I just read about Nico claiming Dylan wrote “I’ll Keep It With Mine” about “the kid and me.”

“About me and my little baby.”

Yeesh. Much as I love several tracks on Chelsea Girl, that one doesn't sound so right; neither did Marianne F.'s (although MF's "Visions of Johanna" is witty and smokey and awes).

I can't recommend an album that has "I Wanna Be Black" without some sort of warning and a signed waiver absolving me of any blame for being triggered I heard it as a takeoff of and from many of Reed's hipster contemporaries, maybe especially the musical ones---too bad it didn't come out in the 60s---also of course what Eddie Murphy referenced as "Negrophile" etc.

But I can imagine how it could be too much-little-hip for other listeners, another white guy being ironic about white guys.

I'll take it over Martin Mull's music, anyway.

I heard it as a takeoff of and from many of Reed's hipster contemporaries, maybe especially the musical ones---too bad it didn't come out in the 60s---also of course what Eddie Murphy referenced as "Negrophile" etc.

Greil Marcus used to argue that Carl Perkins's "Put Your Cat Clothes On" was tapping into the unspoken cross-racial dynamics that was playing out at the birth of rock 'n' roll - basically young hillbillies entertaining fantasies of living African-American culture. IIRC, when "I Wanna Be Black" came out, he linked it to Perkins's song, and I think that's apiece with framing it as a takeoff of Reed's hipster "Negrophile" contemporaries. Some of it's very unsettling ("**** up Jews" never fails to make me cringe) but it always felt purposely uncomfortable.

Yeah, I LIKE the song but if it ever came up on shuffle with other people around i’d be scrambling to shut it down. It’s the backup singers that really make it. I assumed it was aimed just as much at himself, having been a college kid infatuated with doo-wop.

Yeah, I LIKE the song but if it ever came up on shuffle with other people around i’d be scrambling to shut it down.

That reminds me of a funny story. Sometime in the '00s, I went to see a friend at Northwestern in Evanston, and while he was away at class, I grabbed a quick bite to eat at the Celtic Knot. It was lunch time and pretty crowded so I sat at the bar. While I was eating, I noticed that a CD player behind the bar was spinning a Randy Newman compilation, and it was piping the music into the speakers they had around the establishment. Eventually, it got to "Rednecks," and I thought "whoah, that's pretty awesome, but I wonder if that's a little edgy for the lunch crowd? Seconds before the chorus played, someone came sprinting over and hit the pause or stop button before it was too late. I started cracking up and the guy guessed correctly that I knew the music. With an Irish accent, he said "He's a BRILLIANT songwriter, but I don't want to get lynched!"

An endlessly unwrapped subject----yall heard this?
Good Old Boys was initially envisioned as a concept album about a character named Johnny Cutler, an everyman of the Deep South. Newman made a demo of these songs on February 1, 1973: they were released as the bonus disc for the 2002 reissue, titled Johnny Cutler's Birthday.

The kernel of this concept survived into the released album, although as Newman's take on viewpoints from the inhabitants of the Deep South in general, rather than from a single individual character.
...On May 21, 2002, an expanded edition of the album was issued by Rhino Records on compact disc, including a bonus track demo of "Marie" and a second disc containing the February, 1973 demos entitled Johnny Cutler's Birthday. Included in these demo recordings are Newman's verbal descriptions of sound effects and other characters, the songs as a whole describing a narrative in the vein of integrated musicals dating from the 1940s.
Johnny Cutler is---not old, we'd say now---although I seem to recall reading that in 1972, the average American was like 23.5; cue Nixon landslide---but he feels the birthday, as anyone might, esp, living on the blue collar Southside neighborhood of Birmingham---11th or 12th Avenue, up toward the top of the Mountain, and he sees hippies moving in, mingling with the white kids already there, blacks too---he's not Archie Bunker Jr., not exactly, though he'd appreciate it, if a more secure sense of identity came with...when I heard this, GOB seemed even more like a good gloss (of America); now like said gloss was also the Smiley Smile to JCB, in non-druggy ways, although I think Johnny knows about that ol' rabbit tobacco, has heard tell. Probably a hype of my impressionable youth (I knew firsthand about the time and place and people, but how the hell did Hollywood Randy know? He mentioned his Southern relatives, but that was in NOLA, obv. a major influence on his style).
Anyway:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Old_Boys_(Randy_Newman_album)

Rejected by the label, I seem to recall.

why is this on the VU thread

have you read the discussion right before it?

re: Lou v. Frank, narcissism of (not, in fact, so) small differences: "I Wanna Be Black" and the tunes other than the title cut on street Hassle are the kind of things Zappa would have done on one of the 70s records. I never owned Take No Prisoners or Growing Up in Public and only listened to them in detail this past spring, and it occurred to me that those records were very much kin to Zappa's shit at the same time: fusoid hot licks and grooves and the frontguy being an asshole insult comic showering disdain over everyone. I think Lou probly saw what Frank had and thought "that's what I should do," despite their mutual animosity. And then I think in the 80s, in light of his sobriety and a resolve to professionalize, he decided or was advised that he should try to go for a more rock and roll elder statesman thing…

The Bells is very very weird and fantastic. Do not sleep on it!

Except Growing Up in Public, though not very successful in any respect, is actually an attempt to wear Lou's heart on his sleeve. Would Zappa sing "Think It Over" or "Teach the Gifted Children"?

I could never get into The Bells - I really wanted to given the musicians involved, but except for the title track (which is indeed fantastic, one of the highlights of Reed's '70s work), the rest never seemed to fulfill the project's potential. But obviously it has its fans, so yes, definitely check it out.

Except Growing Up in Public, though not very successful in any respect, is actually an attempt to wear Lou's heart on his sleeve. Would Zappa sing "Think It Over" or "Teach the Gifted Children"?

Yes, I don't think "Take No Prisoners" and "Growing Up In Public" have much in common, beyond having the same musicians, "Take No Prisoners" is much closer to "Street Hassle".

I'd keep "The Bells" and maybe "Families."

Would Zappa cry his eyes at following a screening of The Evening Star? I think not.

His eyes out at

Aarfh. It’s tough making fun of a master satirist such as Frank.

Haven't listened in a while, but when it first came out, especially, The Bells sounded very refreshing, and refreshed: Lou woke up and smelled the coffee, realized the new possibilties in rock, especially in Noo Yawk: convergence of the Downtown crowd, as he referred in passing to the young turks,incl. Gramavison-associated jazzbos who knew them some VU, also emerging Material and New Wave and No Wave---was also a big Bohannon fan---and I always thought "Disco Mystic" might have something to do with Arthur Russell---some live The Bells--associated music, with Don Cherry, is on Between Thought and Expression. This could renewed his cred, and maybe sell okay---what with the commercial and critical success of Talking Heads, Blondie etc., obviously rock was growing a lucrative niche, at least---and "mainstream" was maybe even taking on some new wrinkles---(this of course was even before MTV brought many colorful weirdos and "weirdos" to us'ns in the boonie 'burbs)

i see lou and zappa being, like, almost complete opposites in how they approach music

I think Lou probly saw what Frank had and thought "that's what I should do," despite their mutual animosity.

i also think this is pretty absurd

Yeah, me too, despite the Doo Wop overlap. Paul Simon is another member of the Doo Wop Appreciation Society and he is on yet another dimension of musical creation, don’t know if the left hand or right hand rule applies.
xp

No, I can see some similarities in the 'tude, although for Zappa, it's an expected part of the act, and usually complacent---Reed takes it further, as noted by a rateyourmusic reviewer, who loves Take No Prisoners: This is Lou's infamous 1978 live album, in which he deconstructs and reconstructs his 'greatest hits' from the VU and his solo albums, while abusing and insulting the crowd, ranting about his critics, telling awful jokes, and smoking. He's clearly speeding like a maniac, and the entire album is steeped in sleaze and nastiness and insanity. It is punk in a way that few 'punks' could ever dream of.

I think this is a completely fascinating live document, and is one of my favourite live albums of all time. Lou is such an irredeemable, unfathomable prick through the entire thing, and it really is something to listen to him insulting Robert Christgau, talking about what a moron Joe Dallesandro was, imitating Barbara Streisand, praising Bruce Springsteen, and ad libbing whatever crackpot thoughts floated into his mind during the show. And his frustation w xgau is understandable, cos you *really* know what it's like to work your ass off for a year and get a B plus from some toesucker in the Village Voice? Well do yuh?
So back to The Bells, ringing more changes---this xgau bit got me to make my first solo Lou purchase since RnR A:

Ihe Bells [Arista, 1979]
Lou is as sarcastic as ever--the lead cut is called "Stupid Man," and in a typically acid rhyme he links "capricious" and "death wish." But due in part to the music's jazzy edge and warmly traditional rock and roll base (special thanks to Marty Fogel on saxophone) he also sounds . . . well-rounded, more than on Street Hassle. The jokes seem generous, the bitterness empathetic, the pain out front, the tenderness more than a fleeting mood. And the cuts that don't work--there are at least three or four--seem like thoughtful experiments, or simple failures, rather than throwaways. I haven't found him so likable since The Velvet Underground. B+

no, you are wrong, Reed and Zappa represent separate and irreconcilable magnetic poles, please stop with the copypasta

Zappa panders to his audience, Lou hates his

Zappa hated his audience too, but was willing to pander to them to get their money so he could afford to do other things he wanted to do.

sleeve otm. Lou has the words love/hate marked on his arms, Zappa just sneers through his facial hair

As good as “Watermelon Sheets of Easter” may be, it’s no “Street Hassle.”

Zappa's methodical. He literally wrote out sheet music and gave it to people to play.

Also Zappa was aggressively straight (though pathetically sneering at druggies throwing away their lives while he literally committed suicide on cigarettes)

It's kinda funny to me talking about Lou's intent and methods without mentioning he was supremely fucked up for a decent amount of it

Yeah it's been mentioned alright. Just sayin they both liked to sneer sometimes, though Lou was the one blowin snot (Z couldn't be arsed)