ha yea i was dreading scrolling down as soon as i saw his name
at least the turntable would be cool to look at on drugs or whatever
― global tetrahedron, Monday, 20 December 2021 16:00 (two years ago) link
honestly had no clue where Eno was gonna come down on this
― frogbs, Monday, 20 December 2021 17:08 (two years ago) link
if crypto people actually gave a fuck about the effect of their actions on the environment and other people -- that is, if they weren't all selfish libertarians -- they would be trying to move to Proof of Stake. honestly, if they did that, for real, they would win over a lot of people, and they would shut a lot of people up (like me). if they stopped ruining the fucking planet I live on, in other words, maybe i would stop complaining about how the people advocating it are selfish bastards.
i think a lot of people are in that zone. kind of sounds like eno is, but who knows.
Q: There are, however, some people on the left who say that some of these technologies could help make the current digital economy fairer. Do you agree?Eno: Can NFTs be a contemporary form of Robin Hood-ism? Is it possible that artists can use these tools to divert some of the global trillions off into some more productive and humane directions? This is what I would like to understand, though it presents the interesting moral question as to whether clean things can be done with murky money.All the foregoing doesn’t mention the biggest issue: that in a warming world a new technology that uses vast amounts of energy as ‘proof of work’ - that’s to say, simply to establish a certain badge of exclusivity - really is quite insane. All that energy is making nothing that we need. I know there’s ‘proof of stake’ but I don’t know if that can actually work unless everybody changes over to it. And even if it did, it doesn’t address the other issues that bother me.
Eno: Can NFTs be a contemporary form of Robin Hood-ism? Is it possible that artists can use these tools to divert some of the global trillions off into some more productive and humane directions? This is what I would like to understand, though it presents the interesting moral question as to whether clean things can be done with murky money.
All the foregoing doesn’t mention the biggest issue: that in a warming world a new technology that uses vast amounts of energy as ‘proof of work’ - that’s to say, simply to establish a certain badge of exclusivity - really is quite insane. All that energy is making nothing that we need. I know there’s ‘proof of stake’ but I don’t know if that can actually work unless everybody changes over to it. And even if it did, it doesn’t address the other issues that bother me.
― Karl Malone, Monday, 20 December 2021 17:25 (two years ago) link
like, this just sums it up
"I know there’s ‘proof of stake’ but I don’t know if that can actually work unless everybody changes over to it."
exactly. the entire current system that is making shitteens rich is based on the fucking server farms! why would all of crypto's biggest advocates - the pricks using their rich family money to buy server farms in whatever location of the world has the cheapest electricity - support moving away from that system? the system that has large upfront capital costs which they have already paid and are now benefitting from?
and everytime a crypto fuck tries to talk reasonably about proof of stake, they end up just pointing to white papers from other cryptofucks from 2 years ago promising that they were going to do it someday and are working so hard on it. looooooooooool god DAMN how many people were born yesterday (about 385,000, according to the UN - I'm sure at least 2/3 of them will be fucking HORRIBLE people)
"And even if it did, it doesn’t address the other issues that bother me."
good news is, we'll never find out. they won't stop exploiting the current system until they've wrung every single drop of money out of it. that'll probably take a minute
― Karl Malone, Monday, 20 December 2021 17:31 (two years ago) link
last time i checked in on proof of stake, etherium was claiming that they would use it, but they still require you to mine eth in order to get access to the supposedly POS eth2.
peercoin has been using it for a decade but no one uses it because it isn't a pyramid scheme.
― adam t. (abanana), Monday, 20 December 2021 18:03 (two years ago) link
proof of state is defffffinitely coming soon. the crypto community is just begging for it, to save the environment
― Karl Malone, Monday, 20 December 2021 19:03 (two years ago) link
crypto people notoriously put the wellbeing of others above themselves
Thoughts on the value of NFT’s aside, Eno deriding artists turning into “little capitalist assholes” is something else coming from a person that has greatly benefited from global capitalism, to the tune of an estimated $60 million net worth.
― Jeff, Monday, 20 December 2021 20:29 (two years ago) link
he earned every penny of it
― frogbs, Monday, 20 December 2021 20:58 (two years ago) link
I'll bet some of that $60 million in net worth came from capital gains on his investment portfolio.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Monday, 20 December 2021 21:03 (two years ago) link
Eh idk, it seems clear from context that he's objecting to NFT artists pouring so much effort and energy (personal and carbon-based) into the NFT form/phenomenon/scheme/scam rather than primarily making art, which I think is fair coming from him even if he has a bunch of stocks or whatever?
Just an anecdote but: I read something about NFTs written by an art student the other day and it was 8 pgs of justification for blockchain, crypto, and NFTs with half a page about the art they had made
― rob, Monday, 20 December 2021 21:12 (two years ago) link
like getting into NFTs seems to turn you into a salesperson first and foremost
to the tune of an estimated $60 million net worth.
Are we really citing "celebritynetworth" and shit like that around here?
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 20 December 2021 21:17 (two years ago) link
lol I was going to question that, but decided it doesn't matter. I'm sure the guy who produced U2 etc. is rich
― rob, Monday, 20 December 2021 21:19 (two years ago) link
after seeing how much the CEO of Spotify pulls in I cannot complain what any actual musician makes
also I'm pretty sure Eno could've pulled in a lot more over the course of his career if he wanted to, his path was kind of the opposite of a sell out
― frogbs, Monday, 20 December 2021 21:37 (two years ago) link
like the dude was in Roxy Music right as they were getting big, and then a fairly successful experimental solo artist in his own right, but instead of cashing in for radio play he instead decided to make a bunch of records with guys like Hans-Jochim Roedelius and pioneer one of the least commercial styles of music on the planet. like how do you sell something like "Music for Airports" to a label
― frogbs, Monday, 20 December 2021 21:39 (two years ago) link
― Jeff, Monday, 20 December 2021 22:07 (two years ago) link
i feel like if ANYTHING should be an NFT, this should be an NFThttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3Ak5VgyEoc
― i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Monday, 20 December 2021 22:16 (two years ago) link
Would be cool if there was a way for artists to make money that didn’t rely on an environmentally destructive pyramid scheme
― frogbs, Monday, 20 December 2021 22:17 (two years ago) link
I doubt Eno is a Leninist but he refers specifically to financialization there, not merely "making money." Criticizing NFTs debasing the art in favor of taking part in crypto Ponzi schemes is not exactly "making money bad, ignore my bank account plz"
― papal hotwife (milo z), Monday, 20 December 2021 22:22 (two years ago) link
criticizng NFTs for debasing
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/036/647/Screen_Shot_2021-03-01_at_2.28.39_PM.png
― Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Monday, 20 December 2021 22:23 (two years ago) link
NFT's enable more money for more artists
vs
the societal and financial virtues of crypto as new currency is proved by their recent 'success' in the world economy
nah, the bros are correct, why not both.
― antebellum tension fatigue (Hunt3r), Monday, 20 December 2021 22:30 (two years ago) link
Brian Eno worked and campaigned for the Clegg era LibDem party as a "youth adviser". Sort of equally laughable, despicable and utterly fucking clueless!
― calzino, Monday, 20 December 2021 22:34 (two years ago) link
his music is cool
― Karl Malone, Monday, 20 December 2021 22:42 (two years ago) link
take that shit to ilm
― calzino, Monday, 20 December 2021 22:55 (two years ago) link
hahaha
― Karl Malone, Monday, 20 December 2021 22:57 (two years ago) link
its really weird that NFTs are being treated like some revolution in gaming. the first major drama in my friend group came in 2002 when one guy installed a keylogger on another guy's PC in order to steal like, 50 bucks worth of Diablo II items.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 15:04 (two years ago) link
There’s a graphic designer I follow on Instagram who has disappointingly gone into NFTs. Quite telling that on his new posts nobody is commenting on the art but all the comments are suggestions to promote the NFT on other pages and all of them are indistinguishable from bots
― I am using your worlds, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 16:17 (two years ago) link
It’s a community of people who only care about money! Awesome!
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 16:22 (two years ago) link
https://comicbooked.com/comic-book/
― i cannot help if you made yourself not funny (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 21 December 2021 17:02 (two years ago) link
The adoption of NFTs by more and more people is giving me real Rhinoceros vibes.
― JoeStork, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 17:05 (two years ago) link
Though if you want to get in on the ground floor of my Bored Rhinoceros NFTs they’re set to go through the roof.
― JoeStork, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 17:06 (two years ago) link
60 million, 50 million, 1 million, number doesn’t matter. Point is he has greatly profited off of the economic system he’s criticizing, in a way that the vast majority of artists will never have the opportunity to. I don’t begrudge him for making money, I don’t care how much anyone makes; we should all have lots of money! Money is great. If NFT’s enable that for more artists, more power to them.― Jeff, Monday, December 20, 2021 2:07 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
This is such a bullshit, sophomoric argument. NFTs suck, crypto is bullshit. Period.
― we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Tuesday, 21 December 2021 18:02 (two years ago) link
Sorry, wish I could do better! I don’t think I’ve really tried to defend the existence of crypto/NFT’s here. I’m largely indifferent to the benefits of decentralization and other benefits that crypto libertarian bros espouse. I do find type of zealotry off putting! But I am interested in many other aspects (supporting technologies, the network effects, creation of markets/economics systems, how people determine value, financialization of everything, etc.) Perhaps my greatest sin is enjoying making some money from it and being ok with other people doing it as well. Not going to argue that at all, if people find that unsavory, not much is going to change minds.
― Jeff, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 18:58 (two years ago) link
i forget if i got this from this thread or elsewhere or whatever but it's great and it's what i send to people who i think are willing to try to understand why crypto is so fucking stupid:
https://antsstyle.medium.com/why-nfts-are-bad-the-long-version-2c16dae145e2
written patiently and thoroughly by a computer scientist who patiently and thoroughly demolishes all crypto moron arguments. obviously you can't send it to any like zealot types as their brains are far too riddled and gone for actual reflection.
― adam, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 19:10 (two years ago) link
Just so everyone knows. There are HELLBOY NFT's out there that are unauthorized and were made without our's or @DarkHorseComics consent so buyer beware.— Mike Mignola (@artofmmignola) December 20, 2021
The exciting technology of right-clicking and saving a JPG and then selling it to a stupid person for hundreds of dollars.
― papal hotwife (milo z), Tuesday, 21 December 2021 20:25 (two years ago) link
think Frank Zappa would be into NFTs? "We're Only In It For the Monkey"
― frogbs, Tuesday, 21 December 2021 21:25 (two years ago) link
Point is he has greatly profited off of the economic system he’s criticizing
― ✖, Wednesday, 22 December 2021 01:31 (two years ago) link
erbody has something to hide especially frank and his goddamn monkey
― antebellum tension fatigue (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 22 December 2021 02:33 (two years ago) link
xp like i think the whole point of creating alt currencies is so far outside of the scope of... whatever these currently are, man i don't know.
i mean, these crypto bros seem _strongly_ motivated to help everyone (who are like, these bros afaict) "escape" the economic oppression enforced by sociopolitical overlords. because said overlords control monetary systems. but money, like information, should be free. free to fly into their pockets. as they rocket off into space.
― antebellum tension fatigue (Hunt3r), Wednesday, 22 December 2021 02:46 (two years ago) link
NFTs are a massive scam but they are also a beautiful anthropological device that demonstrates the fact that private property is, and has always been, a social construct— obnoxious transexual hacker (@beka_valentine) December 19, 2021
― we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Wednesday, 22 December 2021 19:50 (two years ago) link
Really interesting and, uh, scary thread.
I think crypto is obviously stupid and and NFTs are both ugly and stupid, but I can't shake the feeling that all us self-conscious lefty ex-gawker readers are going to be ultimately "in the right" but in the meantime a ton of these guys are going to be rich, while all we have is our smug satisfaction that we didn't buy an ape picture
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 22 December 2021 20:00 (two years ago) link
Like I don't give a shit about "the future of money," I just know that all these NFT guys who got in on the ground floor are probably going to make bank, and we're going to be at their mercy because we're ultimately always at the mercy of whoever has the money
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 22 December 2021 20:02 (two years ago) link
Like everyone dunks on them because they've created a "culture" around owning an ape picture and that culture is clearly aesthetically, artistically and morally bankrupt, but honestly I would rather be able to buy a house than be "right"
― licorice in the front, pizza in the rear (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 22 December 2021 20:04 (two years ago) link
would totally love to make bank off of these fools, but usually by the time I hear about something like this the buy-in is already out of my league
― Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Wednesday, 22 December 2021 20:05 (two years ago) link
demonstrates the fact that private property is, and has always been, a social construct
this is such an obvious fact that nobody needed NFTs in order to figure this out
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 22 December 2021 20:08 (two years ago) link
whiney you're like 2 weeks away from buying in, just skip to that part. once you're thinking like you're thinking, you're right, just go all the way
i'll be over here, not rich, like always
who FUCKING CARES
― Karl Malone, Wednesday, 22 December 2021 20:10 (two years ago) link
GO GO GO GO GO GO!
GET WHAT'S YOURS!GET WHAT'S YOURS!N F T!N F T!