Floating Points and Pharoah Sanders and London Symphony Orchestra - Promises (2021)

Ulla in general is mostly electronic, but her most recent record Limitless Frame has live (or live-sounding) instrumentation that pushes it into a more ECM type frame. It's good though I prefer her Tumbling Towards a Wall. (I did not like the Sanders/Floating Points record at all so ymmv).

Thanks to all! Starting with Tumbling Towards A Wall and will move on from there. Any specific recommendation from Gigi Masin?

For me, Wind and his side of Nouvelle Musiques de Chambre 2 are where it's at. With the Music for Memory comp as a useful supplement.

definitely get talk to the sea. the new one, calypso, is better than its reception at the time suggested, ime.

Agreed Talk To The Sea is best entry perhaps, however I had a friend write it off unfairly because they thought all the tracks would have vocals like "Snake Theory". His music is mostly instrumental.

Thanks to this thread for reminding me of that Ulla album, which I have on now.

Would any of these alternatives be recommended for someone who isn't very fond of free jazz or noise?

the Irreversible Entanglements album on International Anthem has a little bit of skronk but i find it hard to imagine it would be overbearing for anyone not into free jazz. It is one of my very favourite albums of 2021.

Maybe the Comet is Coming?

not sure how i feel about this album. it kind of sucks? it's pretty i guess. but it has no soul.

That's harsh. The orchestral strings and harp (harpsichord ?) are beautiful ambient jazz, I actually like how static and peaceful that motif is. I've heard less inspired saxophone from an 80-year old. It's a very long piece though, and it's only one.

i'm with crut. once i saw pharaoh fall asleep onstage at birdland and this has similar energy.

Yeah I do t see how this is at the top of everyone’s year end lists. If we’re talking about autumnal works by artists of the same era, last year’s Archie Shepp duo album with Jason Moran crushes this imo. Shepp’s singing of “Let My People Go” haunts me.

The ideas are interesting but the orchestral writing seems pretty crude and rudimentary to me, there's little interaction between the soloist and accompaniment, and I don't see enough in that single quartal keyboard loop to want to hear it for 45 minutes. I was hoping for a more satisfying conclusion/reconciliation in the final section. I said it elsewhere but imo Douglas Cuomo's Seven Limbs was a much better composition for jazz soloist vs acoustic classical ensemble.

I like both Pharoah Sanders and Floating Points a lot and I guess LSO is an orchestra but yeah crut otm

have to agree, doesn't really bring out the best in pharoah, FP or the orchestra

best thing I can say it may introduce new listeners to pharoah

honestly find a lot of floating points bores me, although it all sounds nice and I'm very sympathetic to his projects

I don't know that I'd go as far as best of the year, but it's very very good. I was actually underwhelmed at first, but it really grew on me. It was a much appreciated balm during a pretty turbulent year, I wonder if that might play into how highly rated this has been.

agreed across the board there, jon.

i don't have the formal music education that a lot of the folks putting heavy criticism towards this do, so maybe that's why it's lost on me. but still it seems like this is, if nothing else, a very pleasant and rewarding listen.

Might've said this already but I repeatedly listened to this album in my hammock on hot summer evenings in August/September--sun going down, cicadas blaring. It was bliss. Very intimate recording and patient arrangements that might strike some in the wrong headspace as 'boring'.

I'm with the last 3 posters here, I like it just fine and it has a pretty unique atmosphere imho

Same. In my experience hearing people talk about this record there seem to be a certain # people who look to Pharaoh exclusively for scorching atonal honkfests and are disappointed he doesnt bring that energy to this, but thats just one facet of a 50+ year career. Its not AOTY or even very challenging, and it probably did benefit from being released when was (iirc one poster upthread referred to "music that wont wake the baby" getting a covid-era boost from critics), but I dont think it sets a low bar to praise it for just being a really nice-sounding longform mood piece

I mean, yeah, my fave Pharoah piece is "Harvest Time" so that makes sense, I come to him for bliss not skronk

I'm an old dog who's learned some new jazz tricks recently and this album hits all my joy buttons. It's a wonderful melding of electronics, jazz and orchestra - I feel it like I feel "In A Silent Way". It feels effortless and doesn't have to do anything more than envelop me.

not sure how i feel about this album. it kind of sucks? it's pretty i guess. but it has no soul.

― aegis philbin (crüt), Saturday, January 15, 2022 8:24 AM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

absolutely agree, it's very whatever and strange to see people falling all over themselves about it

there seem to be a certain # people who look to Pharaoh exclusively for scorching atonal honkfests and are disappointed he doesnt bring that energy to this, but thats just one facet of a 50+ year career.

His playing is by far the best thing about this imo.

I liked this album but I don't think this cracked my top 25. Lovely to play on wax though.

I think I just found this whole record eminently forgettable. It's weird to be typing this as a person who is very fond of ambient music and jazz music, but given the Sinephro love and love for this, I'm starting to think I don't actually like what people are calling "ambient jazz"? I mean, I love Bohren und Der Club of Gore, but the Sinephro album is....so breezy as to be totally forgettable.

hm I was just about to send the Sinephro, which I like a lot, to a friend who really likes Bohren. I didn't care for the thread subject album though

One thing it is is an extended celebration of the mysterious beauty of the Dorian mode, which is strong enough to sustain interest for 46 minutes via that enchanting 7-note motif that repeats over and over.

that's also still my take here

Maybe they'll like it? What I like about Bohren is that they usually sound like a soundtrack to a fascinatingly complicated noir film. The Sinephro sounds like a somewhat sparse if talented jazz band rehearsing in a California park. That's nice, but it just doesn't leave much of an imprint on me.

Many times enthusiasm for certain albums are for extramusical reasons. Good marketing, exciting collaborations, great timing, recognizable names etc.

Your "forgettable" is also likely someone else's "accessible", especially for people not invested in the genre, and there is definitely a lot of excitement among those normally not dabbling in this sort of thing.

That makes sense!

You know what else is an enchanting 7-note Dorian motif?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krDxhnaKD7Q

otm

lol

fwiw I liked this record at first but ultimately find it unsatisfying. It sounds really nice, I just wish it went a little further than it does.

unperson otm back in March 2021:

I do think Sanders has been part of some projects where he's just been a punched-in element; a couple of his albums with Bill Laswell have that feel. But here he's absolutely the centerpiece. I really like his vocal bits as much as his horn playing.

I think it's getting critical raves because a lot of critics these days fall over for music that won't wake the baby. But this thing really is quite beautiful at times, and the production and mixing are phenomenal. As a headphone album, it's fantastic.

― but also fuck you (unperson)

lol @ "The Lick", someone should edit Promises to rearrange the motif into "The Lick"

the animus towards this album is really bizarre to me. at worst it's a pleasant soundbath but I think it's more than that.

but for fuck's sake even if it's not your thing, let's be glad a jazz legend is not only still above ground, but still playing and trying new things.

We can be glad about that and also express (pretty politely afaict) critical opinions about what is the most acclaimed album of 2021 according to this list: http://www.acclaimedmusic.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10765 .

And it IS my thing. Ambient production + modern string arrangement + modal improv = tell me where to sign, so it is frustrating and disappointing when the heavily praised result just seems half-baked imo.

yeah totally but there's a weird venhemence (not talking about you) that I see here, Twitter and other places

I guess I don't care anymore at all about what's overpraised though, why bother?

otm

the animus towards this album is really bizarre to me.

Not bizarre to me at all. The reason critical discourse feels like a pendulum is because it is exactly that, the backlash will always match the hype, it's the law of conservation of energy etc. Feels like I witness it on every thread here. Like watching the tides.

i feel like my criticism was pretty mild!!

For me it's just curious to think of this album as divisive. We probably all could benefit from some nuance between "half-baked" and "unspeakably gorgeous mysterious beauty of the Dorian mode". "Kind of sucks, it has no soul" sounds pretty dismissive though. I guess we will see all our contradictions resolve in perfect Hegelian-Marxist way with its placement in the Top 77 and interpret from there.

Hey, I gave more reasons why I felt it was half-baked. Fwiw, I have seen it on hardly any specialized jazz or classical lists (one that I know of).

I haven't even heard this yet

I'm one of the grumpy jazzers who doesn't like the record. It's beautifully recorded and expensive sounding, but feels inert due to the lack of interaction between the electronics, orchestra and soloist. Sanders comes out with some nice lines, but he doesn't have much to work with. Doesn't really go anywhere. String writing just sounds like a chocolate box pastiche of Alice Coltrane, with none of her intense beauty and strangeness.

My main beef has been with the marketing and the gushing praise. Particularly in the UK, where it seems like it was tailor made for the 6Music/Gilles Peterson/ageing clubber demographic. Floating Points has always been mediocre private school white man electronica - like his buddy Kieran Hebden it's all about diluting and polishing underground sounds for a middlebrow market. I'm also quite uncomfortable with the fetishisation of 50 yo spiritual jazz by collectors and DJs, particularly when there's little engagement with contemporary currents in jazz and improvised music, and Promises seems a product of that discourse. I think it came out of the same pot of funding that saw LCO work with Moor Mother, which hasn't been issued as a record yet, but is a much more interesting and challenging listen.

I'm guessing the forthcoming Alabaster De Plume album on International Anthem will be this year's Promises. Praised in certain quarters, but hated in others haha! To get my tuppence in, I find his wide-eyed crusty vibe really precious and the music is derivative and basic. While I find Promises pleasant but dull, Gold actively annoys me.

Professor Grumpy otm!

I was surprised how much I enjoyed how it doesn't go anywhere. And then i liked the Sinephro record even more. Am not a jazzer. Just dabble in jazz and ambient. Two great tastes that taste great together.

Thread reminds me of the time I was mad at lo fi study beats. They have their place.