let's discuss New Order's 'Republic'

And Republic is the album of theirs I pull out most often these days. Not their best but it really takes me (back) to a place and time.

That's Low-Life for me. I swear, I'm stuck in 1985.

I have tix to see them in October at the Hollywood Bowl, and to see Hooky next month. I'm trying to keep expectations as low as possible.

If I had to pick 'my' album it would be Technique though Brotherhood was the first album of theirs I got and almost wore into the ground. But Technique was the first one I heard as it was released and so it remains a portrait of a moment (followed relatively hot on its heels by the Cure's Disintegration and the self-titled Love and Rockets album a few months later).

love the idea that they peaked in 85, fell off, and returned to form in 86.

I dunno, Brotherhood was kind of the last gasp of their early years, when they were still living under the long shadow of Joy Division. While I like much of what came after, what made them most appealing to me--the tension between where they had come from and where they apparently wanted to go (or at least where Sumner wanted to go)--largely evaporated. Neither Technique nor Republic has much of the kind of gloomy mystique that defined them out the gate, and as someone else noted, not nearly enough Peter Hook. We will not speak of Get Ready.

Plus, as I said, the 86 tour, which tbf is the last time I saw them, just kind of sucked. I know they can be (or at least used to be) an uneven band live, but there was some serious disengagement in 86 that just wasn't there in 85.

Get Ready in the main is terrible but Crystal is one of the best songs they ever recorded (the long album version, not the single edit).

Like, I know how people who hate Republic but love Regret feel.

Technique preserves that gloomy mystique: it's not a cheerful album.

Yeah, "Crystal" rocks. The live version from the Finsbury Park DVD was especially good.

Technique preserves that gloomy mystique: it's not a cheerful album.

Maybe so, but it doesn't really sound much like their earlier stuff. It's a dance record.

In part. "All the Way, "Love Less," "Guilty Partner," "Run," "Dream Attack"?

I like Joy Division, but, really, NO was the realization of Joy Division, with all the inherent tensions assumed.

To a point, sure. And I will gladly admit that my own perceptions of the band were largely shaped by the tragedy of Ian's death, which certainly gave them some sort of halo that most bands didn't have, and which, like all things, faded over time.

Xxxxp it’s no secret why the video of their ‘86 tour is called “Pumped Full of Drugs”

Technique and Republic are just as downbeat as earlier stuff, but in a more sublimated way. In Technique it was sublimated in Ibiza hedonism. Republic I think is especially a downcast record, but has less obvious Angst than Joy Division and a more middle -age stiff upper lip reflectiveness.

Special is such a great song.

I think what I'm trying to get at in my own mind is that neither one of those albums sounds even a little bit like Joy Division. As I said earlier, I think this is largely a function of the submergence of Peter Hook (and, I suppose, the virtual disappearance of any sort of "organic" drum sound from Steve Morris).

I've been thinking about this album a lot in the last 3-4 days.

Because its the only album I can name where everyone can agree on the opening track - not just as a great track, but as the best - but then there is absolutely no consensus as to the ten that follow. Each one of them I've individually seen called a highlight and a dud.

Actually growing up in the 00s I was naively always under the impression this was a well-loved album because of three things
1. Regret, and there being three songs in total on the absurdly compiled (the best of) NewOrder, equal only to Republic in that regard
2. generally pretty good review scores - AllMusic have it at 4 etc
3. it's their biggest-selling studio album I believe

equal only to Technique, ahem

idk "Special" and especially "Everyone Everywhere" come up a lot as keepers

and "World" was a solid club jam in the early '90s, perhaps because it's practically an Electronic track.

Republic is a great album. The best album of lyrics Bernard Sumner has ever produced (tiny, extremely low bar there).

All three of those were ones I was thinking of as I wrote that. To name two fairly recent examples - Uncut's JD/NO album-by-album guide which I have somewhere has Everyone Everywhere and Special (and Times Change) at the bottom of the pile, and World towards the top. TPL's take on Republic is very nice on Everyone Everywhere but writes World off as bland.

I really enjoy all three - World is one of a few tracks (Spooky an obvious other) where, Hooky or no, the rubbery/sloping sequenced basslines really do it for me.

"Everyone Everywhere" is usually top ten New Order for me.

As far as contemporaneous reviews, I remember a sense of "Huh! We get them now!" on the American side (yes-that-Armond-White wrote a lovely appreciation for Rolling Stone) while a lot of "meh" across the pond.

I didn't realize til looking at the cover today that the bodies of the couple with the life preserver between them spell out SOS!

Has Saville (or others) ever explained why New Order are always Neworder or NewOrder from 1988-95? Duranduran did not get off so scot free

I assumed it was just a graphic design choice. Are you suggesting there's a legal reason? What happened to Duranduran? BTW, Do You Believe In Shame? is one of my fav "Duranduran" singles but I never thought their name was being run together for anything other than how it looks.

I remember spending an absolute age a while back trying to find a Google Street View location that would produce the cover image from one of the single releases of "Spooky" breathe in:
https://www.discogs.com/release/95201-NewOrder-Spooky

https://i.discogs.com/xfzwh-zFumPySYQ6jVKuNzr9TX2L47fTCmsNxGS3GGg/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:441/w:504/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTk1MjAx/LTEyODQxOTg2NDUu/anBlZw.jpeg

It's Los Angeles, and by studying the buildings I worked out it was roughly this perspective:
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/JA0T1K/aerial-view-of-downtown-los-angeles-in-1984-southern-california-usa-JA0T1K.jpg

But after driving around in the Google Street View car I couldn't find an uninterrupted view. I did however get to see a bit of Los Angeles. It has hills. It looks weirdly flat and empty. Perhaps it has filled out since then. I remember hearing Republic just a couple of years after it was released, and even by 1995-1996 something about the production sounded old-fashioned. And yet I remember liking "Regret", "World", "Avalanche", and "Special". I always wondered if "Special" was aimed at Tony Wilson. And "Regret", particularly the bit about waiting for tomorrow. That song was an instant classic.

I also wondered if Peter Saville had just got a copy of Photoshop, because the montage in the CD booklet looked like the kind of thing people were doing with Photoshop in the "peak Protools" period when Photoshop existed but digital cameras were still obscure, so it was all about manipulating scanned slides and 100mb .TIFFs.

I can't remember a single thing about the other tracks on the album. I know that Technique gets all the respect, and I suppose it came first so Republic was a retread, and Republic doesn't have anything as brilliant as the beginning to "Fine Time", but I think they have a similar strike rate of good songs. I mean the tick-a-cha hi-hat, then the bass, then drrrrrrrr as the drums come in. It's like Star Wars, where we go from the droids to Luke Skywalker to Obi-Wan Kenobi to Han Solo to the Princess etc. "Fine Time" is genius in that respect. It's a little musical story with sheep noises.

I assumed it was just a graphic design choice. Are you suggesting there's a legal reason? What happened to Duranduran?

Nah I figured it was a graphic decision, but I'm baffled why they stuck with it for so long (7 years New Order, 7 years Neworder/NewOrder) without seemingly(?) ever commenting on it. Was Duranduran a legal thing? In the interviews I've read Simon Le Bon just says they went with it just for a while just because they liked the look of it on artwork (and, to quote him directly, because they were getting 'a little bit edgy').

LOL

Los Angeles is neither flat nor empty. However, there are vast swathes without much in the way of pedestrian traffic.

Liar was the song on Republic most directly about Tony Wilson, but I assume just about all of the songs addressing the collapse of Factory are about Tony in some way.

^^^Oh wait think I get what you mean. AFAIK Duranduran did not become Duran Duran again due to anything legal, just that the shorter name supposedly confused people.

It's a little musical story with sheep noises.

"Fine Time" is a masterclass in coming up with lots of melodic hooks - very great and memorable and gorgeous ones at that - and opting not to develop them into separate songs but have them all battle each other in one collage.

I've been listening to Technique all day.

This Fine Time talk reminded me of the Second-Hand Satellites record from (OMG 20 years ago) that samples Fine Time. Great song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPIoEr_ubEg

Top 5 on the album:
Regret, Special, Everyone Everywhere, Times Change, Young Offender.
Artwork is top 3
Like said above, it is not particularly cheerful album, reflecting the internal mood in the band at the time. And yet it’s such a summer album for me. Feeling maudlin at the beach. The cover precisely zooms in on that

Ashley, presumably an aerial shot of LA

Happy 30th anniversary.