Classic or Dud: U2

Day 4, morning, groggy and confused from lack of sleep, can't figure out if you're hearing things or if the Edge's delay is still echoing from the night before

They're not the worst band ever and they're not the biggest band ever but on a graph of those lines they'd be the nexus of worst and biggest.

True. I can't think of a more polarizing band than U2, at least when you factor in the sheer number of people who love them or despise them, and that's probably applicable to both public support/opposition and critical support/opposition. Even my own fandom runs that way - they're discography kind of whiplashes all over the place for me.

*their*

can’t emphasize enough how cool this band would be if they had any other frontman, though they wouldn’t be u2 i guess

I actually think Bono is underrated. I mean, he can be annoying for sure, but so can Mick Jagger, and he (Bono) is as important to that band as the guitar. Back when my guitar teacher and I were trying to figure something out about "With Or Without You" (the repeating 4-note part at the start that turned out to be a synth) we found some recent (so, still several years back) clip of the band doing that song, and Bono was really struggling, because if you go back to the recording he sings the *hell* out of it.

Anyway, I can't think of any U2 songs/albums off the top of my head that I dislike because of Bono.

he's a terrible and overwrought lyricist and vocalist

like even at his best (achtung baby) his performance undercuts the ideas he's working with bc it's like he doesn't know what irony is (not that irony is objectively good or bad it's just a device)

his whole thing works on boy bc he has yet to become ponderous and who gives a fuck if those songs are about anything

I'm used to be the biggest, sometimes only, U2 fan no matter where I roam :(

The purported "ironic" attributes of "Achtung Baby" are as invented as the "Exile on Main Street" parallels to Liz Phair's first record.

And by the standards of terrible and overwrought he's nowhere near the worst. I can think of several off the top of my head *influenced* by him that are worse lyricists and singers.

I often think of something I read: “If U2 weren’t so full of shit they wouldn’t be as great as they often are.”

Bono’s never bothered me.

I think he’s a great vocalist, gonna get FPd to hell but I think you’re describing Robert Smith

i've probably made these points before, i just really hate bono. can you imagine how perfect the passengers record would be without "elvis ate america" which has to be in the hall of fame of the worst writing in human history

xxxp

the funniest Bono moment is when he gives advice to Stephen Dorff in the terrible film Entropy

“If U2 weren’t so full of shit they wouldn’t be as great as they often are.”

i accept this

xpost Elvis Ate America is terrible, but it's the worst song on a self consciously weird side project record, and Howie B is probably as much to blame.

howie b forced bono to write those words and say them like that at gunpoint

but he did so ironically

There's a helpful helping of 'dated' references (East 17, video stores, handicams, HIStory) in some 90s Bono songs that endear them even more to me

YAHWEHHHHHHHH

God Part II is probably my favourite example of terrible lyrics good music in all of pop

It's like the rest of the band conspired to come up with that metallic INXS/proto-Achtung sound just to upend all that rather meaningless pontifying.

"Angel of Harlem" is worse than any song mentioned.

Worst 80s U2 single - I like When Love Comes to Town even less but the first 10 seconds or so are funny. No subtlety or tension-and-release for Bono he just cuts straight to it

I think Greg Kot came up with the best defense for Bono, calling him an Irish soul singer. Like once I heard that description, I enjoyed him more, as long as he didn't let his pretensions get the best of him. That's what sunk a lot of The Unforgettable Fire for me - I like the production but it's a wildly uneven batch of songs.

Going over U2's discography, if I gave a quick grade to everything (and these are very subjective):
Boy A-, October B, War A, Red Rocks (the DVD) A, The Unforgettable Fire B-, Joshua Tree A-, Rattle & Hum B- or possibly C+, Achtung Baby A, Zooropa A-, Pop B-, ATYCLB A-, Dismantle a Bomb C+, No Line on the Horizon B, and I can't even rate the last two as "Every Breaking Wave" is the only song I've bothered to listen to again.

I can enjoy "Angel of Harlem" and even enjoy the first verse (having flown into JFK during winter many times, I'm probably biased). But it feels like a guy who strings together musical references without really understanding them. Like he's name checking Billie Holiday and John Coltrane but the whole song's built on Memphis Horns charts that are more fitting for a Stax/Volt record. (I think the live acoustic version is kind of nice FWIW.)

I like B. B. King on "When Love Comes To Town." Granted, it sounds like he could've laid it down in one take without even a rehearsal, but his guitar does sound good. It sounds like a nothing song, something they could've knocked out very quick...I would be amazed if they labored over it.

(I think the live acoustic version is kind of nice FWIW.)

Same to be fair. Works quite well during ZooTV, I would say 'strangely' but dissonance was the whole point of the thing.

The purported "ironic" attributes of "Achtung Baby"

The thing is, after the ham-fisted humorlessness of Rattle & Hum (the film and the record, but especially the film), which essentially defined U2 from 1988-1990, Achtung felt like a goofball comedy record. And a welcome one.

I think "Achtung Baby" is super dark and serious. But due to its ham-fisted humorlessness "Rattle & Hum" is actually pretty funny, which is ... ironic.

Achtung and Pop both use their colourful veneers as trapdoors. And to this end both have the most miserable endings as well (along with NLOTH probably).

That Neil Tennant takedown of U2 justifies the existence of “when love comes to town”

Sep 96: Hay una discoteca por aqui?
Feb 97: ¡aquí está!

When Bono learned PSB had covered "Where the Streets Have No Name," he faxed Tennant: "What have we, what have we, what have we done to deserve this?"

I was fortunate enough to see this band at their seminal Red Rocks gig in 1983. My friend and I almost didn't go because of the rain. We were so happy we did, because even then we knew it was something special. At the time, Bono's act came across as sincere and inspirational. It was only later that the whole thing soured, at least for me. Probably in part because I waited in line all night for tickets for the Rattle and Hum tour (which sold out before I got halfway to the window), but mostly because they (Bono) started taking themselves too seriously and overstayed their welcome.

Verdict: dud overall, with occasional flashes of brilliance.

Joshua Tree will always be perfection to me. Never really cared for any U2 albums after that incl Achtung Baby.

I use an iPhone for work and every once in a while, not sure why, it starts playing U2

do you work at the U2 factory

Zoo Station led off Achtung Baby in fall 1991, and it came just on the heels of summer 1991's Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey, featuring the character Station. When you realize that the year had started off with Cinderella's Heartbreak Station (released in Dec 1990, but come on guys, year of impact) and a remastered release of David Bowie's Station to Station, it was just a hell of a year for stations.

bono was at his best on achtung baby & zooropa because even just trying to adopt a pose was enough to counter his worst tendencies for the most part, he's fantastic on "the fly" and "lemon" and never anywhere near his worst

of course he invents new ways to be bad later in the decade like on "elvis ate america" and "the playboy mansion" so it didn't last that long, but he makes things work for at least some of pop (his vocals are fucking terrible on it though)

he made the big soaring shiny arena rock thing work some of the time in the 80s but still kinda in spite of himself. he's a big enough, soaring vocal presence to sell that sound but whenever his lyrics are anything more than vague they falls flat

otm

I really like the vocals on Pop - maybe just me but I think there's a tension there between two acknowledged points about the album: the dry, upfront vocal sound and moody singing style, and the fact the album was never completed so the mix is just all over the place. For all that he's apparently quite close-mic a lot of the time, he is well and truly buried on a "Mofo", say.

But I'm very used to being the Pop defender anywhere I go so salt/pinch etc. "The Playboy Mansion" is really dicing with death on Bono's behalf but I like how the music lands on the right side of its imagined trip hop/bar band divide while (ironically or not) still flirting with the other side.

^^^well put. Pop is Bono being very non-bombast.

On the New Order thread we were talking about how despite the burbling electronics Technique and Republic are downcast albums. I know U2 are Joy Division fans maybe those records influenced Pop.

i'm sympathetic to pop but it's ultimately kind of a failure. the songs are solid but largely too long, the mix is really muddy and all over the place yeah, the dance-rock thing largely is forgotten about after the first three tracks, bono's vocals are unusually poor, the performances are often relatively lifeless and don't really do the songs justice...

"the playboy mansion" is decent musically, just bono's lyrical schtick completely flops. "miami" is worse lyrically and bizarre enough musically that i kinda respect it but still don't enjoy it

still though, "mofo" is fantastic, "discotheque" and "do you feel loved" are both very good, and the rest is generally fine despite the many problems. it just clearly could have been so much better than 'fine'.

Yeah, "Mofo" and "Do You Feel Loved" work best.

I appreciate and understand every problem there is with Pop but none of them get in the way when I listen to it. Think I'm gonna have to write about the album one day to at least try and understand why I really like it so much when I know its not the album anyone involved or buying it wanted it to be.

Like I know "Miami" is usually considered the worst track - musically rather than lyrically I think - but that weird clattery backmasked "Peek-a-Boo" whatever thing I really enjoy and especially when the bass comes in and it sounds like its in a loop of tripping over itself. Possibly another artist could have done more with it but I do very much like what there is.

"Mofo" is the best song. Considering there is so much in the mix (even seemingly Howie B going "okay, Bono" at one moment, unfinished indeed) it's remarkable how well it works.

Second favourite is probably "Velvet Dress"

"Tonight the moon is a mirror-ball/light flickers from across the hall" - good Bono lyric because that's what the Edge's guitar sounds like at the same time

i still might rank it as high as their 5th best album which is heretical

I like Pop more than it's reputation. The singles had some worthwhile B-sides. The "Please" CD single has an amazing renovation/remake of "Dirty Day" from Zooropa (one of my favorite songs from that album).

I stop the album after "Gone", but those first seven tracks make for a pretty solid album. It's dicey after that: "Velvet Dress" is the best of the rest, but I'm never in the mood to hear it