Better Call Saul

Just gonna breeze past intentional fallacy/death of the author chat somehow going on in 2022 if that’s ok

I rewatched this ep and it needs to be said again, Rhea Seehorn deserves so many letters from Anthony Hopkins for this. Even before the waterworks there are a few moments where she lets go just a little (“you want me to say something?”) and it looks physically painful

So much going on in the phone call, they are still poison for each other: I think Kim inadvertently sets Jimmy off with “however you’re living, it can’t be much”, after which he determinedly leaves his own sprinkler-company existence on a suicide mission back into the bigsmall time, & “you’re the one with the guilty conscience” prompts Kim’s trip to Albuquerque and the amazing scene with Cheryl — & the heart-sinking thing there is that she’s still dissembling by not mentioning that the other witness is alive & in contact

Plus “Saul goodman” is largely Kim’s creation (something I think he is throwing in her face in the divorce papers scene) and horrible as geneviktor is at this stage I was feeling for Jimmy at the start of the call (on his birthday!) there is still something of the kicked puppy about odenkirks performance

Solid lols at gene singing along to “the tide is high” (v funny ~significant~ song choice) and doing the classic starting to sing the wrong bit bit

also I know the point is to show the awfulness of Kim’s bullshit job but I could have spent another 10 minutes in that office

Well gee, ok. Wasn’t trying to assert anything “without question”. I just thought it was a neat detail that is clearly intentional of *something* - since they did it twice to bookend the show.

Nah, you're good.
“Saul goodman” is largely Kim’s creation How d'ye mean, winsamp?
Her office is comic strip hell ov mundane---her hair, on other hand, is scary self-punishment.

She did reinforce him, encourage him, for sure, back in the day. But he brought that out in her, that thing that her Mom encouraged in her.

I mean it literally: in the first half of this season she is shown to be the one to come up with the details of the goodman persona: this is what Saul would drive, this is the kind of office he would have &c

She's helpful, encouraging, but it's the idea, and the propensity for being the gleeful, shady Robin Hood, that he already had, right? Which becomes her own justification: fight for the little guy, screw the big guy---but for both of them, the big guy becomes less The Man, The System, and more---Howard, the righteous complacent etc.

But yeah, she's got her own Lady Macbeth tendencies, going beyond Skylar responding to Walt, which at first I thought Kim-Jimmy-Saul was just gonna rehash. The BCS writers continue to bang dents into otherwise predictable or somewhat familiar arcs.

Gene aping Walt aping gus in the scene with Marion, even if he pulls back at the last minute… shit this guy’s toast

(This and nearly braining the cancer patient with his dead dog are low points for sure but re the post upthread about these being his first violent acts, it was p heavily implied that he gave the poison to brock though they sort of disavow it later iirc)

xp sure, I’m not saying she made him who he is but that she literally took the lead in constructing this specific persona, as we saw

forgot about Brock!

this b otm

So it makes sense that Jimmy is so infuriated by other people’s attempts to take responsibility for themselves, especially if he considers them to be just as compromised as he is. To admit that you’ve done wrong, or that there are lines you won’t cross is to agree that there are ethical and moral standards that go beyond interpersonal kindness, and that adherence to those standards might require some kind of sacrifice. When you’re willing to cross a line and the other person isn’t, who looks like the asshole?

― kinder, Saturday, August 13, 2022 5:57 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Tony Soprano has that problem too. And Don Draper: "Whenever I'm really unsure about an idea, first I abuse the people whose help I need, and then I take a nap."

― clemenza

Yeah when he says “we’re both too smart to throw our lives away for no reason” it’s clear he hates the idea of her choosing to face consequences when she should know that she is better than that just like himself

Well gee, ok. Wasn’t trying to assert anything “without question”. I just thought it was a neat detail that is clearly intentional of *something* - since they did it twice to bookend the show.

― Kim, Sunday, August 14, 2022 3:39 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Oh, I wasn't aiming anything at you! It was just a thought on symbolism interpretations. I was already speaking generally at that point.

Just gonna breeze past intentional fallacy/death of the author chat somehow going on in 2022 if that’s ok

kind of, but- never mind whatever

not really death of the author just how this stuff works, people come up w their own takes/shadings even when omg The Author

Like when Emily Nussbaum worried in The New Yorker about "bad fans" of Breaking Bad, the ones who were really really Team Walt all the way through---there's always something like that, and not nec. predictable: like Mark David Chapman gets autograph from Lennon, shoots him, and sits down on sidewalk to read his sacred text, The Catcher in The Rye.

john lennon *was* a phony tho

The records will show that I voted for breezing past

also I know the point is to show the awfulness of Kim’s bullshit job but I could have spent another 10 minutes in that office

As ever, this show and its progenitor are just superb on the texture and details of work, whether it’s criminal or mundane.

Great episode overall, especially the Kim parts, but that Kim/Jesse scene was one of the worst 5 minutes in the entire BB/BCS run. Embarrassing.

My take is that the entire episode is intended to draw the distinction between Saul, who is completely remorseless, and Kim, who is absolutely remorseful and has attempted to redeem herself by leading a "good life". The (terrible) scene with Jesse highlights this - at that point in her journey, she is not yet able to realize how bad it was what she and Saul did. The phone call from Saul makes her realize that her "good life" is not enough - it hasn't tipped the scales for her or assuaged her feelings of guilt. She realizes the only way forward for her, the only way she can live with herself, is to come clean (at least as to her part in everything - the fact that she doesn't turn Saul in shows she still loves him on some level). The next step on her journey would be for her to realize that Saul is still out there hurting people and to turn him in.

Also, the two ends we see of the Kim-Gene phone call are interesting - last episode we see Gene reacting in anger because Kim doesn't buy Saul's act. This is crucial, because it highlights that Kim never bought Jimmy/Saul/Gene's act - she wasn't another mark who got roped into their scams - she was a willing participant the entire time, bears just as much culpability as Saul, and her realization of this spurs her to confess.

If Kim hadn’t had the cautionary upbringing and conflicted view of her mother and hasd been the Jimmy character in this series, it would have been so much crazier and worse. He’s the natural con, she is the natural liar plus so much else

I thought I might like the Jesse scene better on rewatch but if anything it struck even more of a bum note (almost worth it for the last line/shot tho). It’s all down to Paul who is excruciating, his movement & delivery is so forced I felt like I was watching a beautifully shot Kevin smith film or something. I was just remembering how funny he was in that classic bb scene where he has dinner with mr & Mrs white which I think is kind of the vibe they’re going for here, Jesse running his mouth trying to fill the silence, but for whatever reason Gilligan just couldn’t get the performance out of him

(Speaking of, with all the cameos we’ve had it might have been nice to see Anna Gunn in the breaking bad episode — Skyler did know Saul, & their dynamic was pretty fun)

Paul is in his early 40s, it just wasn’t going to work no matter how many big hats you put on him.

Part of it boils down to the motivation for why he's talking.

Gilligan's known for legendary one-liners, but the best ones were generally earned.

Here, you could have had anybody ask Kim if Saul was a good lawyer and got the same quality response.

But because they decided to make it Jesse, then they tried too hard to legitimize why he'd talk to her AND why he'd ask the question he did, especially since she's the type of person he'd have just glanced at and shrugged. Felt entirely exposition, not a character moment or a good hybrid

It'd be almost as if the say my name scene went like this

Declan : Who the hell are you?

Walter White : You know. You all know exactly who I am. Say my name.

Declan : Do what? I don't... I don't have a damn clue who the hell you are.

Walter White : Yeah, you do. I'm the cook. I'm the man who killed Gus Fring.

Declan : Bullshit. Cartel got Fring.

Walter White : Are you sure?

Mike: That's a common misconception. Lots of people think the cartel got Fring, but as much as it begrudges me to say it, Walt did. See he outsmarted me and threw me a curveball. And I'll always be wondering how I let him why I killed him when I got the chance.

Declan: are you done?

Mike: really it was a betrayal of my police training in Philly. There was a time I let an abusive spouse kill his wife. Walt remembers that story. I took a half-measure. And now all that's left of Gus is eyes without a face

Walter White : That's right. Now, say my name.

Declan: I forgot what we were talking about

idk maybe I'm the only one who got this impression but that Jesse/Kim scene still felt significant because Kim, in theory, could have talked Jesse out of hiring Saul

obviously you're right in that it didn't have to be Jesse there but this series has earned a bit of fanservice here and there. I did think it was very cool when Hank & Gomez popped up for a quick scene in BCS

xp

"Ok, ok, I'll say it. You're the one who knocks."

Literally all they had to do was have Paul turn to Kim and say - "ey. This Saul...he any good?"

Xpost lol

The scene between Walt, Jesse and Saul worked because they focused on the stepdad/stepson vibe Paul and Cranston had during that period of BB, and recaptured it nicely.

I really think it’s just that Aaron Paul is remarkably bad in the scene (& not because he doesn’t look 20, they always do that shit and it’s usually classic)

I saw some Q&A thing with one of the show's creators (can't remember which one) where someone asks what they would've done had Odenkirk died from his heart attack, since they hadn't actually finished filming at that point. and the response was "well we'd have no choice but to cancel the season". amazing how close this whole season was to not happening at all

Literally all they had to do was have Paul turn to Kim and say - "ey. This Saul...he any good?"

Xpost lol

― We were clothed, except for Caan, who was naked. Don't know why. (Neanderthal), Monday, 15 August 2022 17:42 (one hour ago) link

Yeah it was ruined by being too long; trying too hard to callback to Jesse's origins with Emilio.

I would totally go with your rewrite but maybe have it start with Kim pausing due to the rain, glancing over at Jesse who is already looking at her leaning against the wall. As she pulls out a cigarette to wait, she breaks the tension with the stranger looking at her with a small talk comment like the one Jesse actually used.

Kim: (gesturing) "can you believe this rain? In a desert?"

Jesse: (shrugs, then takes a few steps towards her staring into the parking lot. Stops, looks towards Sauls office and then to her) "ey let me ask you somethin. This Saul...he any good?"

Then basically Kim's last line and the jog into the rain exactly as it was done.

Just occurred to me Elaine Benes dated both Walter White and Saul Goodman. pic.twitter.com/3GkFThliUc

— Justin McGuire (@JMcGuireMLB) August 15, 2022

Great catch, Justin McGuire. Bob Odenkirk's already warming up for Saul: "I always knew that after I became a doctor, I would dump whoever I was with and find someone better. That's the dream of becoming a doctor." (Or else he's just reprising Stevie Grant from The Larry Sanders Show.)

And I think her father was more or less Mike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkqngcYwJnU

LOL I literally watched the Dr Tongue ep of Seinefeld yesterday, no way I would have noted him as the broken arm mediator guy.

very excited for the next BB/BCS meta-spinoff "Rhea Seehorn Deserves an Emmy"

Elaine's father was played by the notorious Lawrence Tierney, prodigious noir heavy whose career was not helped by scaring the crap outta those who initially wanted to continue working with him, on The Simpsons and Seinfeld, for inst. Also, some off-set behavior, for instance

In July 1991, during the filming of Reservoir Dogs, Tierney shot at his nephew in a drunken rage at his Hollywood apartment, and was arrested and bailed. He was released for a day from the jail to continue filming, as recounted by the film's director Quentin Tarantino in an interview. As a result, Tarantino never again worked with or hired Tierney to act in his films.[37]

Won't add any spoilers for those who haven't seen it yet, but---don't expect too much, esp. from the last few minutes.

So bizarre that Kim moved a half hour from where I live. Hearing "Central Florida Legal Aid" was jarring

Worked for me. The show was never going to go for the explosive ending that BB did.

Yeah, but what he did in courtroom was soooooo out-of-character, I mean what we were recently saying about him ffs, and so well-established over so many years, with the redundant guest star scenes supposed to justify/soften us up for the last minute thing.

One guest star def not not not redundant, however.

Seeing Kim's leaving (and Lalo's death) as the climax of the series and the last 4 eps as denouement, I'm happy with how it all played out. I had a feeling Saul would be caught quickly in this one. They had a lot of ground to cover in this episode -- great editing job to get it all in without seeming too rushed.

It was out of character because he found out Kim confessed and she's the only living person whose opinion of him he gives a fuck about. I mean her cold demeanor got him upset enough to shatter a phone booth in a previous episode.

Her confession shocks him because unlike him, she had no threat of law enforcement and multiple felonies and RICO charges looming over her. Just pure conscience.

He wants be seen as a decent human being in her eyes and that means squaring up to what he did and not weaseling his way out for maybe the first time in his life. His life is already shit, he has no real friends, he'd rather go to prison for life with the one person he loves respecting him again than emerge from jail in 7 years with nothing.

And of course that's a parallel to Walt in Breaking Bad confessing to Skyler.

Marie had zero effect on him at all. If Kim never confessed, dude is on his way to negotiating for a two year sentence and rack of lamb every night.

I like happy endings--happy in context, happy compared to all the other ways it could have ended--so I liked this. Not Mad Men's finale, or The Sopranos', but for me, very satisfactory. Saul finds Jimmy--I don't find that beyond the realm of dramatic plausibility.

If I'd made a list of who might turn up in the final episode, Marie would have been 37th. So I loved the surprise of that.

I expected Lalo to walk into the courtroom carrying the St Elsewhere kid's snowglobe

the point of all the flashbacks for the ep was to drive home his final courtroom appearance.

Honestly, I was kind of worn down by the Jimmy-Kim relationship over time. For me, the Jimmy-Chuck relationship was the highlight of the entire run, and that came through beautifully in the flashback here.