Better Call Saul

Would have liked it better if he went off to do his reduced time (but I think it would have been at least a decade: Feds seem less likely to cave quite so far, although I've read about it happening on State and lower levels pretty often), and we last see him as a jailhouse lawyer, cocky but keeping an eye about, always wondering if he's gonna get shanked or shived, since, as he mentions to prosecutors, some of those guys he was afraid of are still out there). That seems a lot more realistic/in character than---what they did, ugghhh

Was waiting for Bill to plead with Jimmy one more time and Jimmy responding "you're one of the smartest guys I ever met, but you're too stupid to see I made up my mind ten minutes ago"

Xpost Jimmy is way safer on the inside than he is on the outside now that everyone knows he's alive and where he lives. 7 years, 86....tomato

I did think the Walt bit was perfectly written and delivered. Disappointed that Odenkirk and Esposito are getting their own shows next year, but not Seehorn. Maybe she'll turn up on those, along with other BCS and/or BB actors. Maybe she'll get a one-of; maybe lifer jailhouse lawyer will! They could be in one one-off together, of course.

So is he now going off to prison in the Southwest? Everybody in that bus seems to know who Saul is.

yeah it was the particularly unpleasant prison he mentioned during his negotiation. a bunch of his abq-based clients end up there

Yeah, I *think* that he was genuine in not wanting to go to that prison, but I also wondered if it was his backup plan to get sent there punitively in case the deal somehow got botched or, as happened, he decided to torpedo it.

He's forever Saul Goodman there!

The Cinnabon call from jail was one of the more surprising moments. Something we might have assumed would be one of the last things on his mind, but revealed a basic good conscience? It kept me hanging on to some hope, even as it looked like he really might go all the way down. The complexity of the happy ending they gave us feels pretty satisfying.

but also... who else was there to possibly call?

It hadn't occurred to me before how uniquely suited to prison Jimmy is for someone who'd never done time. To whatever extent he isn't able to trade in on his rep as a criminal-friendly lawyer, he also has his rep as a high-rolling cartel associate. And he just generally seems to have a lot of facility in dealing with the type of people who might be doing hard time (and in ducking trouble if it comes his way). They could probably whip up a fun little miniseries showing him ruling the jailbird roost ten years down the line.

yeah that's why his change of heart didn't bother me - everything in his life is gone. he has no more family, no more friends, he's never gonna practice law again, and he'll never recover any of the riches he had without falling into the same habits that lost him everything in the first place. the only thing he has is Kim, and by confessing to the Howard thing it pretty much confirms that things there could never go back to the way they were. so what's he got to live for? at least in prison he's in a place where people know and respect him.

The Cinnabon call...revealed a basic good conscience?

Good conscience, I'd say, and also a dynamic--I've experienced this more than once, I'm sure others have too--whereby you develop a kind reflexive loyalty not to the company you work for, you know you're essentially nothing to them, but to the people you work with. You don't want to leave them with a mess. There's some guilt there, too, or something.

"a kind of"

Was thinking exactly the same xp

Would definitely watch a series of Jimmy in jail

can confirm

I thought I saw a faint bit of color in the glowing tip of the cigarette they shared, but I don't know if I'll ever go back to check. I tend not to rewatch shows -- too much else to get to.

Faint? It was clearly orange lol

That was a nice callback to the first time they met

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdl2AneHvgo

A+ backdoor pilot for the bill oakley spinoff

Loved both of Saul’s final displays of courtroom showmanship, heel and face: the first with the ice cold response to “you think a jury’s gonna buy that?” as he stares down Marie; the second makes total sense for the obvious reasons ppl have stated - Kim’s confession jolted his conscience - and his long long overdue moment of honesty (can’t call it redemption, really, and who actually benefits from this punk spending a more insanely long time in America’s stupid carceral system?) works for me as a happy ending of sorts, but fundamentally it’s still their old dynamic; these two spur each other to do reckless things

Finale posed too many questions.
Why did he dress up in a shiny suit in court if he was going to humble himself and turn back into jimmy?
Did his testimony absolve Kim?
What was the point of the scene with WW?

I enjoyed the thank yous More than the episode except for a Esposito more disingenuous than his character on the show

where were Walt and Saul in that flashback? i can't remember a damn thing about BB any more!

in the basement of the vacuum cleaner repair shop

I was confused by that too, till I read a review afterwards.

in the basement of the vacuum cleaner repair shop

― calzino, Tuesday, August 16, 2022 7:09 PM bookmarkflaglink

Best King Crimson album

Thought that actually flashed across my mind when B&W Saul took out the repair-shop business card: "They're not going to try some CGI thing with Robert Forster like they did with Nancy Marchand in The Sopranos, are they?"

The only thing that didnt work for me was how easily the feds took his BS and caved to his insane plea bargain demands. I find it very difficult to buy that happening in real life.

True. I guess we're supposed to think that Walt's demise was a humongous news story.

xpost Yeah, like I said this noon:

Would have liked it better if he went off to do his reduced time (but I think it would have been at least a decade: Feds seem less likely to cave quite so far, although I've read about it happening on State and lower levels pretty often), and we last see him as a jailhouse lawyer, cocky but keeping an eye about, always wondering if he's gonna get shanked or shived, since, as he mentions to prosecutors, some of those guys he was afraid of are still out there).

Yes, def. rooting for return of Jailhouse Saul, like yall.

I wondered if there were going to be further visits to Jim as a jailhouse lawyer. Or if that was going to be it for BB/BCS franchises.
So there are further stories to be told in this universe being written already then?

Right after finale proper, they announced a new series with Bob O., due in 2022: Straight Man.
xpost But what was the point of his having the co-counsel? Just somebody who might in some way prove useful? Saul's wheels still turning at this point, seems like, as his classick process goes into overdrive (and then some, when he finds out what Kim has done).

I dunno personally I'm done with this universe between the 2 shows and a movie... I dont feel like theres anything left to tell?

OK maaaaybe Gus's mysterious past in Cuba or Colmbia or wheerver it was that made everyone afraid of him. But Gilligan has always said that story isnt gonna be told afaik?

Esposito's show to be: Parish. Maybe he's a priest.
Yo, Seehorn?!

True. I guess we're supposed to think that Walt's demise was a humongous news story.

― maf you one two (maffew12), Tuesday, August 16, 2022 7:38 PM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I mean, it absolutely would have been! Two DEA agents murdered in the desert, ten people killed in jail, an entire cartel family wiped out, an explosion at a nursing home, an underground lab, and a roving murderous Nazi gang, all brought about by a spurned chemistry teacher with cancer and a sleazy TV lawyer? Shit would be national news and likely wind up with a movie adaptation before the trial even started. Had it gone to trial there would probably be cameras covering every second of it and Saul Goodman would've become a household name. And we all know how TV circus trials like that can go. That said, that angle isn't really explored here, so who knows. Obviously such a negotiation would take more than two minutes but they only had one episode left to go :)

But what was the point of his having the co-counsel?

Actually yeah that was another thing I was confused by.
- were we meant to know who that guy was? He was instroduced as knowing Saul but I didnt recall him
- he didnt seem v impressed by Saul and wasnt interested
- nekminnit there he is having clearly caught a plane he was baldly told he had to pay for himself to get to ABX? Cmon.

"petty with a prior"

I guess Saul was implying it would be a big publicity deal, so good for Bill's career however it turned out? There are lawyers who take cases like that, it seems, at least where I live, and you know, R. Kelly's still got counsel, Trump always will.
(I don't really think they'll do any more than a one-off, made for cable/streaming movie, at most. Gilligan said many years ago that one of his favorite shows growing up was M*A*S*H*, "but the Korean War was three years. The series went on for eleven.")

neither esposito or odenkirk's new shows are set in the BB/BCS universe for anyone confused by that, also neither involves gilligan or, afaik, any of the major bb/bcs creative team

and gilligan fwiw has said he's done with this universe for the foreseeable future

frogbs summarizing what could/should have been a brief scene of the news coverage hysteria around Walt that would've driven things home to more casual fans of the series (like me... i mean how many of us have seen any of the material more than once?)

so yeah i guess i buy it

I'll be watching this episode again. it was a lot!

Bringing in Oakley makes sense, he’s kind of the last guy Saul actually knows and in earlier seasons it’s implied they’ve worked together a lot

The impression I got was he was willing to sell out Kim but changed the plan upon finding out she confessed already

The part I didn’t buy was Kim being unaware that Saul was caught. One would think she’d be monitoring that situation after the phone call.

I saw that odenkirk is doing a campus set drama about an English professor.
Which had Anthony Sher as the History Man running through my head. Different Dept of course and country.

& Esposito is supposed to be a US version of a BBC drama the Driver. Don't remember that show. Is it recent?

It occurred to me that the small subset of people who've seen BCS but haven't yet seen BB were unlikely to be swayed by WW's appearances in this series. Who wants to watch that miserable SOB snipe at people for six seasons?

"Run"

xxxpost Oh yeah, he maybe was gonna sell her out, since he indicated that he thought he still had Howard up his sleeve ("Hamlin?" Prosecutor so derisive: look who else missed the evening news). But you know, we all miss it sometimes: busy busy busy. Hey, what was she doing with that file, creeping around like that??

They did that fake episode 'American Greed' but really you got to go to the dude and make one with Keith Morrison interviewing Saul or at least get Odenkirk to host SNL and have Bill Hader as Morrison interviewing Saul.

I dunno personally I'm done with this universe between the 2 shows and a movie

Ditto times 10. With all the circling narratives and COVID interruptions, it's just too much at this point.

thinking about it more I think the final twist really was great, when I watched it I was thinking "fuck Saul what are you doing??" but ultimately I think Saul realized that even with a reduced sentence he'd be left with nothing when he got out and would likely pull a bunch of scams until he got caught again. in fact that's basically what happened in Omaha, when despite everything he was nearly home free. so he does the "it's showtime" thing once more, this time performing not for the court but for Kim, realizing that the person she loves is Jimmy, not Saul, and the only way he can have some semblance of something real in his life (kim's admiration, if nothing else) is to give himself up