U.S. Politics, November 2022: “I don’t know, you hear the same things I do”

I can only speak to what I've seen on the ground the last couple weeks, and it may be as hard for libs here as it was for me to realize. It's sobering.

I suspect what state and national Democrats miss about Hispanics is their willingness to accept what many of us who are ourselves Hispanics consider a motheaten fiction about the American Dream. The loudest Cuban-Americans at the early voting site where I volunteered last Saturday were not my parents' age: they looked about twenty years younger and had the mien and manners of recent arrivals (we locals can spot them in a crowd). They want smart phones, new cars, a summer trip to Longboat Key. Immigration-as-synecdoche they could give a good goddamn about. Trans rights, access to abortion, "saving democracy" -- they matter but not as much gas prices for those new cars and puzzling through the byzantine social mores of persuading Cousin Raul in Hialeah to let them crash in his efficiency for a couple months as they delude themselves into thinking Miami-Dade has affordable housing.

This quote from a local satrap who gets it speaks to my own experience:

“You see, that’s a perfect example. I’m telling every single one of my candidates here, do not talk about abortion in this campaign,” López said. “You have a lot of Latinos who are fine with abortion being the law of the land—but they are against it morally. They may not be, quote-unquote, pro-life, but don’t shove the issue in their face. Don’t force them to choose sides. They might not choose the side you would think.”

I think we'll realize tomorrow that the national party's emphasis on abortion-as-winning-issue may have been a mistake in many local races. It's fucking cornball, but HOPE AND CHANGE and YES WE CAN is precisely what Hispanics want to hear. The Obamans got that right in 2008 and 2012 -- even HRC did in 2016. Cubans, Nicaraguans, and Puerto Ricans fuckin' hate whiners. You know how I felt this weekend on the phone and campaigning? Like John Fucking McCain in 2008: defensive and cranky, offering no platform except what the other side will do.

It is hard to see why or how anyone sensible or sane could think it was a good idea to vote Republican in the USA today.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, November 8, 2022

And this is why we're losing Hispanics. We can't patronize them.

Good morning!

Negronis for all!

it's true, I'm not sure exactly what the Dems have to offer besides "things will get much worse if we lose", which, ok, that's fair. I mean yes, obviously they're on the right side of many of these issues, but the truth is that the vast majority of voters will never need an abortion, know somewhere between 0-2 people who are trans, and will never be in an active shooter situation. I don't wanna be one of those dipshits who brings up "virtue signaling" but yes, running on issues that won't directly impact most of your voters doesn't feel like a winning formula. the appeal to 'democracy' doesn't really work either, since democracy is already fucked, and the MSM is so insistent on treating "the 2020 election was rigged" like a legitimate viewpoint that it probably all just feels like noise to the average voter. and it's frustrating because the Biden admin HAS made a lot of progress - they did pass the biggest climate bill in history after all - but they campaign in the same fear-mongering manner that Republicans do. I don't know how well that works on their base.

Well, I voted. It was bitterly amusing in a way, because Crooked Bob Menendez's (presumably) crooked son is running for the House. I felt like I was in Louisiana or someplace.

It took ten days of this shit to realize "obviously they're on the right side of many of these issues" is precisely the problem. It's not enough. And paying more for gas and milk would've defeated the GOP incumbents too in any other year.

And the "obviously" part is what comes off so insulting and condescending to the Hispanics I talked to. It's like, "Fuck you, dude, DeSantis is positive!"

(I'm not at all zinging you, frogbs. I have the same posture).

According to every "swing voter" interviewed by NPR, the real problem is that the Democrats are TOO WOKE, and "out of step" with "the country" on social issues, so if they can't talk about abortion/LGBTQ rights and they can't talk about democracy or gun control, and no one cares/the media doesn't adequately report this administration's progress on climate, energy, predatory lending/student debt, or drug price caps, and voters are liable to DISAPPROVE of taxing corporations (taxes bad) or adequately funding the IRS (TAXES BAD), I'm honestly not sure what's left. Like it's an un-thread-able needle.

Please run for local electoral seats, people.

Get on your goddamn library board.

The economic moment is a large problem. Campaigning with low gas prices + no inflation makes selling positivity easier.

perfect time to run on legal weed for all

It is hard to see why or how anyone sensible or sane could think it was a good idea to vote Republican in the USA today.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, November 8, 2022

And this is why we're losing Hispanics. We can't patronize them.

― Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, November 8, 2022 6:50 AM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

But hopey-changey buzzword shit is also patronizing— it might work, but it is patronizing. And tbh, pinefox is right— anyone who can't recognize that the Republican party wants them and their children and their children's children (if that even happens) to work as wage slaves and then die, preferably early, well...that's on them, afaic. It's not patronizing to be truthful, and anyone voting Republican is a fascist, a moron, or both. Period.

And this is why we're losing Hispanics. We can't patronize them.

Is that patronizing, though? It's very difficult to see what the appeal of the Republican message is now. Maybe it's just a failure of empathy on my part.

the one happy part about voting this year is that I was reminded Austin had some redistricting and I am now in Lloyd Doggett's district instead of Mike McCaul's. First time I've had a Democratic congressman representing me in many, many years.

yeah I was also happy to discover that I get to vote for Doggett again!

But hopey-changey buzzword shit is also patronizing— it might work, but it is patronizing. And tbh, pinefox is right— anyone who can't recognize that the Republican party wants them and their children and their children's children (if that even happens) to work as wage slaves and then die, preferably early, well...that's on them, afaic. It's not patronizing to be truthful, and anyone voting Republican is a fascist, a moron, or both. Period.

― poppin' debussy (the table is the table),

Political slogans are always implicitly condescending. Who cares? When they work as they did in 2008 and 2012, it doesn't matter.

I agree with everything you say -- you're not the one I've been trying to persuade the last two weeks. Instead of merely pointing out what the other side will do, though, we have to say what we DID and what we WILL DO.

Is that patronizing, though? It's very difficult to see what the appeal of the Republican message is now. Maybe it's just a failure of empathy on my part.

― immodesty blaise (jimbeaux),

Yes. You're telling the people whose votes you're courting that they're repulsive and stupid for voting GOP. Most people react violently against being shamed even when they agree with the shamers.

But, y'know, don't mind me -- a Hispanic surrounded by these people in a county about to take the biggest rightward swing in 20 years.

in orbit exactly right.

People are allowed - even encouraged - to regard voting as an act of self-interest and self-care. That is, they make their decisions based on what affects them directly.

It is a hard sell to get people to regard voting as an act of empathy for others. Personally I am very privileged (and also very imperfect), but my cradle politics was always based on sympathy for the downtrodden. If my family and peers had designed a politics purely around what benefited us, it would be fucking horrible.

Um, I guess I mean, even MORE horrible.

there's probably a good article written about this but the GOP's strategy of being comically evil actually does seem to work for them. it allows them to shame the media for being "biased" whenever they try to report accurately on the things they're doing. and it makes the Dems look bad for constantly pointing out how blatantly evil they are. I have two kids - when one is annoying the other, and the other starts complaining and screaming, that's the one you get mad at. even if it's the first one's fault.

xxp The problem is that so much of the Republican platform is repulsive and, if not stupid, then profoundly cynical. And it's a direct threat to some of those I hold near and dear. Maybe that doesn't make every Republican voter stupid or repulsive, but at a minimum it makes me question their judgment.

You're right, Alfred. I think there are ways to couch my more strident last few sentences in a better way, but I'm obviously not a political sloganeer.

"The Clinton and Obama years were the most prosperous years the US has seen in the past few decades— don't you want prosperity and hope over mean-spiritedness and constant seething anger?"

It doesn't have a ring to it, and tbh, lauding Clinton and Obama at all gives me the fucking willies, since they're both murderers. But some variation of that, in a more succinct form, could work wonders.

Mind, I'm not courting Republican voters, but Hispanic voters hesitant about voting blue; reminding them what's at stake if they vote for Republicans...isn't enough, in my experience. Making them feel part of an aspirational moment in which they do belong to the Dem coalition, not dismissed as a given because #immigration. Since 2020 the GOP's been in South Florida unceasingly explaining what the party will do for them; we've however taken them for granted.

It doesn't have a ring to it, and tbh, lauding Clinton and Obama at all gives me the fucking willies, since they're both murderers. But some variation of that, in a more succinct form, could work wonders.

And I'm with you. Saying this shit runs counter to every molecule in my body, hence why I don't do this for a living.

"Political slogans are always implicitly condescending. Who cares? When they work as they did in 2008 and 2012, it doesn't matter."

Shouting change without delivering any change might get old.

Don't mind me.

"Political slogans are always implicitly condescending. Who cares? When they work as they did in 2008 and 2012, it doesn't matter."

Shouting change without delivering any change might get old.

Don't mind me.

― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, November 8, 2022 7:42 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think this is the part of the Dem platform and marketing that makes it most infuriating— the hollowed out version of the ACA notwithstanding, while Dems were screaming hope and change, a lot of things were getting measurably worse for many people. The Repubs took this resentment and ran with it, and while white grievance and xenophobia certainly have a lot to do with Repub numbers, it is also without dispute that Dems really shit the bed in straight-up refusing to think about their former constituents put out of jobs by a combo of neoconservative and neoliberal economic policies.

The thing is, Biden does have real accomplishments he could promote.

If Dems were to plausibly run on a hope and change platform, there would need to be major movements on M4A, raising the minimum wage at a federal level, and so on. But too many of the party's people are just as in the pocket of the nefarious megadonor class and at the whims of lobbyists that it'll never happen....the reality is that these policies are winners, but people within the Democratic party act as if they're not because they're not policies that suit their own self-interest.

A minimum wage might have mitigated against inflationary pressures.

and also an excuse for raising prices

Lukashenko has outlawed inflation, you'd be ok.

Random note: a volunteer just knocked on my door, left a Wes Moore hanger, and cheerfully reminded me that today was Election Day. I assured her that I voted by mail weeks ago. Even in this safely blue state, it felt heartening.

between this and another damn hurricane (albeit one that looks to be milder than Ian), today is gonna suck.

Assuming GOP control of the House and possibly/probably Senate, yes, there'll be a lot of handwringing about Democratic messaging and leadership and being out of touch and whatever. A hard turn from DC consultants against talking about racial equity, LGBTQ issues, maybe even abortion. Most of that will be dumb, not least because a lot of these election results (the House especially) were functionally baked in regardless of other factors.

But it's also true — and will be true even if things aren't a total wipeout for the Dems — that the party really is lackluster, really does lack leadership and direction and vision, really has not articulated a clear much less inspiring vision for the future of the country. The GOP messaging is borderline insane — "Save our children from being mutilated by radical liberals!" — but it sure is simple and stated with great force. Even worse, I don't really see how the party fixes any of that itself. (Especially if Biden runs for reelection, lord have mercy.)

That's why I think the messaging and energy and coherence has to come from outside the party and force its way in. I don't have a magic formula for that, but it ain't gonna come from the DNC.

I don't have anywhere near the relevant training to know but perhaps part of the problem is Dems care too much about weighing every statement/decision by how it will affect their electability, which makes them too slow to react, too wishy-washy, and too easy to paint into a corner by their opponents. whereas Republicans just lie and shout their nasty messages, unfiltered, from the rooftops, knowing they'll alienate a big chunk of the population, but that they'll amp up their base's enthusiasm, and maybe peel off undecided dummies with their confidence and ability to stay on the attack.

would love to see a Democratic candidate just run an ad where they call their opponent a dumb motherfucker rather than trying to politely debunk what was said about them in previous attack ads and doing things like going "we're not woke, we don't want to defund police either, see!" to try and appease independents.

LIke quit falling for the gish gallop, quit taking the high ground, just hit back, be a damn liberal with teeth for once.

sorry, that was teethist of me

you're otm. Isn't that what Fetterman has done in Pennsylvania?

admittedly haven't been following that one as closely.

Senator Oz, if I hear those words tonight, flat screen tvs will cease to exist in a 10 mile radius of me

I guess it boils down to, most Democrats are so afraid to lose, they wind up doing it anyway

yeah Fetterman's race is the one to watch IMO, he was polling way ahead for a while and it seemed like they might actually have a blueprint on how to beat these morons who exclusively argue in bad faith. but it's tightened up a lot since then, so who knows.

A big chunk of Fetterman's message is "I'm just like you, only taller." Of course, he's also got a track record as the state's lieutenant governor, something the political press decided a year ago that they were just going to ignore so they could paint Fetterman v Oz as a contest of equals.

like literally, every goddamn D politician should go to every debate with a bullhorn and when their opponent lies, should blow the fucking thing, every time

*foghorn

Apparently the debate and the ablelist terms under which it was scrutinized changed few minds, as ever.

making them feel part of an aspirational moment in which they do belong to the Dem coalition

Yes! Making something seem fun and exciting and then inviting people to enter and invest in it, is just good organizing! But also, you have to have actual fun and excitement and things that feel transformative to offer.

But it's also true — and will be true even if things aren't a total wipeout for the Dems — that the party really is lackluster, really does lack leadership and direction and vision, really has not articulated a clear much less inspiring vision for the future of the country.

O______O

Re the Fetterman debate, hearing some of the actual audio was extremely upsetting as he struggled to articulate things and get words out. I'm astonished at the amount of campaign work that's been happening while he recovered and wasn't always visible or heading up the work. It's so interesting how his wife (who famously embraced being the SLOP--Second Lady of Pennsylvania lol!) stepped in and took up that space on his behalf.

We need better salespeople for some of these ideas - brash, charismatic, daring, but acting in the spirit of altruistism. That seems to be what so many people instinctively respond to.