Here's another clue for you all - GLASS ONION: A KNIVES OUT MYSTERY -- dir. Rian Johnson; Daniel Craig, Edward Norton, Kate Hudson, Dave Bautista, Janelle Monáe, etc etc

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That said, if you don’t get to the theater this week, definitely reup Netflix in December and watch with your family! It’s good!

Then probably cancel Netflix again

G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Monday, 28 November 2022 01:14 (six months ago) link

aiui the limited screens this week are fourwalled by Netflix, and non-bigtwo theatres or chains are going to be allowed to bid to book it after the Netflix streaming debut

more crankable (sic), Monday, 28 November 2022 01:19 (six months ago) link

Anyway, I only discerned one minor plot hole

I bet Johnson would be super-embarrassed to realise he accidentally wrote a scene that depicts Bron as being reckless, hasty to indulge whims that are destructive to others in order to protect himself, but lacking in forethought or critical thinking

more crankable (sic), Monday, 28 November 2022 01:22 (six months ago) link

Yeah, I bet he's really sad.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 28 November 2022 01:24 (six months ago) link

saw it this weekend it is just delightful and fun, didn't feel anything close to its running time

Jaime Pressly and America (f. hazel), Monday, 28 November 2022 04:40 (six months ago) link

Enjoyed Serena reading Gravity's Rainbow in the gym scene.

Piedie Gimbel, Monday, 28 November 2022 13:15 (six months ago) link

ha, i didn't catch that! nice callback to the joke in the first one

Nhex, Monday, 28 November 2022 13:37 (six months ago) link

enjoyed this plenty, fun way to spend an evening with friends. certainly Norton is one of the more memorably hate-able of the growing crop of cinematic dumbass tech billionaires. everybody did a good job, but i wasn't swept away the way i was with the first one. tough bar for all sequels to things where half the appeal was how fresh they felt.

i do think the relationship dynamics among the cast maybe weren't quite as vivid, as others have noted. but I'll also point the finger at the setting, which i found really bland and fake-looking, compared to Christopher Plummer's creepy old Victorian manse. still a good flick tho!

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 29 November 2022 03:45 (six months ago) link

very fun. can't believe "Agatha Christie shit that isn't set in great-grandpa days" hasn't been a decades-long thriving genre.

charlie brown from outta town (GM), Tuesday, 29 November 2022 03:51 (six months ago) link

for real.

this also reminded me of latter-day Hitchcock, very determined to entertain but unafraid of being quite silly on the way there.

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 29 November 2022 03:57 (six months ago) link

"We appreciate the input, and acknowledge this would've made $100 million with ease, but it is very important to Netflix, as a business, that people watch this movie on their phones. For some reason." https://t.co/qlGDfGXDVK

— David Roth (@david_j_roth) November 30, 2022

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 30 November 2022 15:37 (six months ago) link

yes. you might even say it was SOOOOOOOOOOOO... foolish i guess

Nhex, Wednesday, 30 November 2022 16:42 (six months ago) link

We were going to see this last no night but the theater had sold out to the point where there were no open seat pairs left.

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 16:46 (six months ago) link

SHITBALLS

Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 30 November 2022 16:54 (six months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Last night I rewatched Knives Out for the first time since it came out. I was struck by how much more naturalistic it was compared to Glass Onion. The new one really leans into the glitz and glamour and overall spectacle, and in doing so ends up being quite a bit more cartoony.

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 21 December 2022 15:14 (five months ago) link

this was a lot of fun, not as neat as the first one but entertaining

loved the anticlimatic scene where blanc ruined the gillian flynn plot

daniel craig is hilarious, I wonder if it's the gravitas that comes with age that allows him to be so funny, or if he was always very funny

corrs unplugged, Friday, 23 December 2022 22:23 (five months ago) link

He's good in Logan Lucky (with a similar accent), though some of that is that he seems dangerous in the film as well - the lightness and fussiness is new, I think?

Andrew Farrell, Friday, 23 December 2022 22:45 (five months ago) link

Film is great. A LOT of stuff to giggle at, like the red Solo cup given to the assistant

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Saturday, 24 December 2022 02:14 (five months ago) link

BUTTRESS

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 24 December 2022 06:35 (five months ago) link

this was terrific, just highly enjoyable from start to finish. Craig & Monae, MAGIC!

also RMDE at all the balloonheads on twitter who were breathlessly calling White Lotus a “mystery” or a “whodunnit” when ~THIS~ exists, like stfu you dopes

i def want to watch it again & luxuriate in the enjoyableness

and this is only a small matter but man i love seeing kate hudson deployed correctly. she was great.

also lol at the burnout dude chilling in his room to Little River Band’s “Cool Change”. A+

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 24 December 2022 07:36 (five months ago) link

My older daughter hadn't seen it yet, so most of us watched it again and enjoyed watching her watch it for the first time.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 24 December 2022 14:09 (five months ago) link

I also loved this. My only complaint is that I didn’t bug that a governor running a progressive Senate campaign would willingly jump on a party call with a boner pill meathead, let alone go on a weekend retreat with him

castanuts (DJP), Saturday, 24 December 2022 14:20 (five months ago) link

*believe, I don’t know how that ended up as “bug”

castanuts (DJP), Saturday, 24 December 2022 14:23 (five months ago) link

She knows there was ZERO rhino in those pills

more crankable (sic), Saturday, 24 December 2022 14:24 (five months ago) link

I know there are a million little details like it, but I caught how Duke's holster had the Gadsden snake and "DTOM" printed on it.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 24 December 2022 14:35 (five months ago) link

I liked how they dispatched with COVID as a concern. (Ethan Hawke: "You're good.") I was distracted in the first few minutes by people who seemed to work for Kathryn Hahn not wearing masks at her house.

jaymc, Saturday, 24 December 2022 15:24 (five months ago) link

Very nice “oh she’s off putting out some fire” gag

Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Saturday, 24 December 2022 16:35 (five months ago) link

birdie’s mask being just netting was hilar

Duke’s Mom boredly solving all the puzzles was great too “…Fibonacci”

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 24 December 2022 17:08 (five months ago) link

Birdie's mask was one-upping Lana Del Rey

more crankable (sic), Saturday, 24 December 2022 18:10 (five months ago) link

lol

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 24 December 2022 19:14 (five months ago) link

Enjoyed this more than I thought I would. Laughed out loud several times, while watching it alone on a laptop wearing headphones.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 25 December 2022 01:03 (five months ago) link

https://twitter.com/sannewman/status/1602039776424722435?s=46&t=b822EJTbUUBowG8Ps_6e2A

Oh that’s good. Couldn’t put my finger on it when it happened.

BlackIronPrison, Sunday, 25 December 2022 01:53 (five months ago) link

maybe my favorite reference in Glass Onion pic.twitter.com/sjNOGhklQo

— Dave Itzkoff (@ditzkoff) December 23, 2022

BlackIronPrison, Sunday, 25 December 2022 01:54 (five months ago) link

oh shit

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 25 December 2022 01:59 (five months ago) link

YESSS

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 25 December 2022 02:13 (five months ago) link

omg

G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Sunday, 25 December 2022 02:37 (five months ago) link

Ha, was just reading about that:

That contagious fun was evident when Norton completely surprised Johnson by appearing on set for a flashback scene dressed exactly how Tom Cruise looked playing macho motivational speaker Frank T.J. Mackey in Paul Thomas Anderson's 1999 movie "Magnolia," complete with shoulder-length hair and a black leather vest over a velvet shirt with the top buttons undone. Norton's idea was that his billionaire character, Miles Bron, is so unoriginal that he would copy the look from a movie he just watched.

"He and Jenny Eagan, our costume designer, came up with the look and I had no idea," Johnson said. "I started cracking up. But then I thought, 'Is this too much?' I also thought, 'What is Paul going to think of this?' Hopefully he takes it in the right spirit."

https://www.insider.com/rian-johnson-interview-glass-onion-star-wars-2022-12

jaymc, Sunday, 25 December 2022 02:51 (five months ago) link

So! This was...fine. Not anywhere as satisfying as the first one.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 25 December 2022 13:56 (five months ago) link

Hudson and Monae were MVPs.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 25 December 2022 13:57 (five months ago) link

whenever i watch a rian johnson film i feel like i’m in the hands of a very good filmmaker and i especially felt that when the lights went out

less sure i’m always in the hands of a good writer, the story doubling back on itself kinda gave me a headache, and i only accept ludicrous twin sister reveals in horror movies and pretty little liars

hudson and bautista were excellent

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Sunday, 25 December 2022 17:21 (five months ago) link

The doubling back annoyed me too, worth it (for a while) to watch Monae give serious movie star vibes.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 25 December 2022 17:24 (five months ago) link

Bautista is an underrated actor. If he looked just 10-15% more human he could follow The Rock's path and be a man for all markets.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 25 December 2022 17:29 (five months ago) link

Monae’s acting was a real surprise to me too, also she’s super adorbs in this film.

Lord Pickles (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 25 December 2022 17:31 (five months ago) link

"SHITBALLS!"

Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Sunday, 25 December 2022 17:36 (five months ago) link

I'm no doubt alone in thinking so, but I've always found Norton hot and more so as he's hollowed out with age.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 25 December 2022 17:43 (five months ago) link

funny thing is he always struck me as phony as an actor around his American History X days but I've grown to enjoy him much more in his later career.

Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Sunday, 25 December 2022 17:45 (five months ago) link

I thought he was the real deal as early as Primal Fear and I loved him in Everyone Says I Love You but I never thought about him twice until the late '00s.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 25 December 2022 17:47 (five months ago) link

He was fun in "Moonlight Kingdom." In some ways he's the most insufferable when he's doing Serious Acting, and the most enjoyable when he's doing silly character stuff (like this or Wes Anderson or iirc "Birdman").

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 25 December 2022 18:02 (five months ago) link

yeah josh otm i feel the same way,

werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 25 December 2022 18:11 (five months ago) link

he was good in MOtherless Brooklyn (as an actor at least), even though the movie/adaptation wasn't good

Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Sunday, 25 December 2022 18:12 (five months ago) link

I think Knives Out is a cleverer puzzle. I think the misdirection in Glass Onion is outstanding, though, particularly when you watch it a second time and try to catch the movie cheating. I think there’s very much a statement there about how little of our environment we actually perceive or process and how much received wisdom we allow to fill in the blanks in order to fit what we’re seeing into our preconceived narrative.

castanuts (DJP), Monday, 9 January 2023 20:58 (four months ago) link

Ah, I should rewatch GO, which I watched first time last night. I like KO better on one watch because it did feel like a tighter story, more intense presentations of the players, who also were slightly more interesting than in GO, and more subject to viewer evals and consideration during the viewing process.

I thought the whole puzzlebox thing was annoying and over done, it started to just be like, oooh how's macgyver gonna do this one? the whole thing felt very made for tv to me, despite the opulence.

normal AI yankovic (Hunt3r), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 01:18 (four months ago) link

puzzlebox set up the hammer joke

Cinta Kaz is comin' to town (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 02:46 (four months ago) link

yep, a metaphor for the whole shebang as well

sleeve, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 03:08 (four months ago) link

I was bored by that sequence too (though the hammer bit did make me laugh a lot)...but yeah it's an essential part of Bron's character

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 03:14 (four months ago) link

I think Knives Out is a cleverer puzzle. I think the misdirection in Glass Onion is outstanding, though, particularly when you watch it a second time and try to catch the movie cheating. I think there’s very much a statement there about how little of our environment we actually perceive or process and how much received wisdom we allow to fill in the blanks in order to fit what we’re seeing into our preconceived narrative.

― castanuts (DJP), Monday, January 9, 2023 3:58 PM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

this is a good point! i was thinking about the in the context of how we initially don't see who is at blanc's door and how he actually got involved

call all destroyer, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 03:16 (four months ago) link

yeah one of the dangling threads is how did he get that box and I thought well stands to reason that there's only one person there who could reverse engineer it but it turns out it wasn't him lol

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 03:19 (four months ago) link

there was something delicious about the first movie and that its death first appeared to be an inexplicable self-murder - that the planned murder didn't work as intended, that the intended victim happened to be a whodunnit expert who immediately envisaged a much more complex plan of their own which did work, that they seemingly had no idea that anyone had tried to murder them and that what they thought was a pre-emptive killing of themselves was actually, in the end, self-murder. very difficult to match that, which may explain why a sequel based apparently upon superficial complexity.

where we have two remarkable and sympathetic characters in the first, in the second we have one. the murdered sister has obviously been wronged (and then murdered to boot) but do we see anything that really portrays her as a sympathetic person? then the deaths themselves are, in the end, boring rather than obvious.

Yes to all of this. The extraordinary thing about Knives Out was that it presented a plot we'd never seen before while also staying true to the genre of country-house murder mystery, where you'd think all the existing plots had already been used. And the misdirection was the very best kind; the kind where the false plot seems real because to some of the characters it is real. We see the story first through the eyes of Ana de Armas's character, who really believes it happened this way, and so the gradually unfolding realization that she doesn't have all the information is both surprising and satisfying. And it fits with the characterization of her as a straightforward and decent person who doesn't know she's in a nest of vipers. Of course there's more going on than she sees. Of course we, who are in her head, wouldn't see it either. Of course it would take a Benoit Blanc, wise to the evils of mankind, to see what we're all missing.

I enjoyed GO, but it didn't have that quality of things locking together with an audible snap that Knives Out had. The twist in Glass Onion works, but that's all you can really say for it. It doesn't make you go "Ohhh, that makes sense!" It doesn't upend what we thought was happening. It's just more information about the story, withheld for no particular reason. GO also felt more depressing to me, in that it basically presents Bron as impossible to take down. I would have been okay with an ending in which Bron was somehow tricked into burning down his own mansion, but an ending in which the characters basically say "I give up, there's no winning against this complete idiot; he's too rich and powerful to bring down legally, so let's just commit arson and hope it embarrasses him," is a big old bummer. Knives Out had the satisfying quality of an episode of Columbo, where the rich and powerful are brought down by their own hubris and the detective's relentless common sense. Glass Onion basically says, "The law can't get these guys, so we have to go outside the law," which is a sort of negation of the whodunit genre, a swerve into noir, maybe, or the kind of thing you see at the very end of a series, where the writer and the detective are both exhausted, and the writer can only bring it to an end by blowing up the whole premise that the good guys can get the bad guys by figuring things out.

Lily Dale, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 16:45 (four months ago) link

I thought that was kind of the point of the ending, they had to find a way to ruin the mythology of Miles Bron. having his 'clean' fuel source torch his own mansion and ruin one of the most famous artworks of all time seems like it would probably do it. not to mention the murder of two people close to him. it's hard to imagine "Alpha" sticking around much longer after that.

I guess on reflection Knives Out was probably the better movie, but I think it's a legitimately great one which doesn't come around very often anymore. Glass Onion is also great but less so. It's maybe unfair to compare the two - they're both murder mysteries, but I think they both approach the concept in very different ways

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 16:56 (four months ago) link

And to be fair, Johnson has explicitly said that he's taking a Christie approach where not every mystery/story/etc has to be the same or work the same or have the same tone etc. He wants to vary it up, and some things will work more than others depending on the viewer. I mean, I'm already very interested in whatever the third film will be regardless of what the hell approach/setting/etc he takes.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 17:03 (four months ago) link

Lily, agreed very much about the overall differences - great description of why KO worked so well.

I do think I enjoyed GO just a little more than you did; I guess for me the ending pyrotechnics still have the 'satisfying puzzle' feel, because we're seeing the two heroes smartly put together several different pieces of information to identify exactly how this scorched-earth solution could be achieved, and why it would work.

got it in the blood, the kid's a pelican (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 17:20 (four months ago) link

Extremely minor point but I appreciate that Benoit quoted the line "my God, it's full of stars" as being from 2010: The Year They Make Contact, not 2001 (I know it's in the book 2001, but more importantly it's not in the movie).

Chris L, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 18:11 (four months ago) link

I thought that was kind of the point of the ending, they had to find a way to ruin the mythology of Miles Bron. having his 'clean' fuel source torch his own mansion and ruin one of the most famous artworks of all time seems like it would probably do it. not to mention the murder of two people close to him. it's hard to imagine "Alpha" sticking around much longer after that.

― frogbs, Tuesday, January 10, 2023 11:56 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

No billionaire has nor would ever face consequences for anything ever

Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 18:36 (four months ago) link

ok

frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 18:39 (four months ago) link

Michael Milken was the equivalent of a billionaire in today's dollars

more difficult than I look (Aimless), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 18:46 (four months ago) link

man I thought about it a little and a high school chemistry teacher wouldn't be able to defeat a cartel, so now I don't like Breaking Bad anymore

fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 19:09 (four months ago) link

they literally have this conversation in the movie iirc

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 19:29 (four months ago) link

Extremely minor point but I appreciate that Benoit quoted the line "my God, it's full of stars" as being from 2010: The Year They Make Contact, not 2001 (I know it's in the book 2001, but more importantly it's not in the movie).


Yes! Also loved that.

bit high, bitch (gyac), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 19:34 (four months ago) link

even more extremely minor point, miles wasn't playing blackbird correctly, or at least not how mccartney plays it. maybe accidental, but the camera did linger on the fretting hand right at the pertinent moment.

ledge, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 09:00 (four months ago) link

thats when i knew who did it

mark s, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 09:28 (four months ago) link

i think one of the reasons i got taken out of this bc i watched with my parents and they found the internet jokes incomprehensible

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Wednesday, January 4, 2023 7:45 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah same, they didn't understand anything or know who the people being caricatured were.

pinefox and also dan SUPER otm about what makes mysteries interesting/good. Right after watching GO I thought about the really classic whodunnit and decided that the sleuth doesn't necessarily have MORE information than the others (or the reader) but they perceive/understand it differently, they're not misdirected by their expectations.

GO didn't give anything to go on and felt quite cold (funnily enough for being set on a mediterranean island). I loved the jokes but I didn't like any of the people.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 18:45 (four months ago) link

I loved the subversion of the puzzle box, how in so many stories solving it would be the WHOLE story, it would be impossibly convoluted, etc, whereas here it was shallow and took minutes. When Monae smashed hers in the garage I knew right away she was going to be the only sane one! Great moment. I thought it had great moments like that but kept getting in its own way.

Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 18:49 (four months ago) link

BB was way less of an idiot this time around, yeah? didn't love that.

death generator (lukas), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 19:29 (four months ago) link

I loved the jokes but I didn't like any of the people.

Yeah this was one of the key issues for me with GO. The Knives Out crew were equally reprehensible but they were flawed in a more relatable way and the film took care to give them some nice character moments e.g. Jamie Lee Curtis' relationship with her father; Meg the niece who is otherwise kind and reasonable as long as her own interests aren't being threatened; even Ransom was seen as somewhat sympathetic (or maybe we're just primed for that because he's being played by Captain America). I guess Peg and Whisky had their own moments too in GO but neither felt sufficiently fleshed out in comparison.

I also think KO was better served by having Marta as the main audience proxy rather than Benoit - it's much more fun watching how he works through someone else's eyes, plus we're constantly anxious for her so when the twist/reveal arrives, it's not just satisfactory but comes as a huge relief

Roz, Thursday, 12 January 2023 04:29 (four months ago) link

Roz: I agree, I think it's not so much that those characters are more likeable (though you're right), more that they cohere as a group. The GO group didn't seem like a group at all, but a random assortment.

in orbit: It would be fair to say that in a detective story the sleuth should NOT have more information than the reader - if they do it is 'unfair', according to the (laughable if you like) classical rules of the Detection Club et al. While such strict rules are absurd, I think this principle stands.

in orbit: "Yeah same, they didn't understand anything or know who the people being caricatured were." Nor do I. I think that the Miles Bron character might be like Elon Musk, but otherwise the characters didn't remind me of anyone in particular.

I feel much in agreement with those for whom character was a problem in GO.

the pinefox, Thursday, 12 January 2023 11:42 (four months ago) link

I think some of this is a proxy for the fact that the characters just stood out more in Knives Out - there wasn't really a lot for Leslie Odom Jr, or Katherine Hahn to do, they were slight variations on "dependent on Miles, but resentful of it" and without much screen time that couldn't have been amalgamated, the Thrombeys were more varied in their relationships with Harlan, and each other.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 12 January 2023 20:49 (four months ago) link

“I’m not here!”

The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 21 January 2023 01:33 (four months ago) link


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