EMPIRE by michael hardt and antonio negri

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (121 of them)
http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/story.jsp?story=552229

Okay, so Negri isn't immediately accessbible: so send an interviewer who understands him (and indeed, something about history and politics). This is just embarrassing.

ENRQ (Enrique), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 08:37 (nineteen years ago) link

haha I did finish it, and many weeks ago but I forgot to post abt it. I'm not sure abt the 'finnegans wake' line, but also I was baffled by the conclusion to this bk. I took it as a 'hey this is what's happening, and this is where action can begin!!!' but beyond that...needs another read.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 08:49 (nineteen years ago) link

astonishing book.

cºzen (Cozen), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 09:28 (nineteen years ago) link

i can't remember who was hating on zizek upthread, and although i sympathize w. them point is zizek is a grebt POPULARIZER. ie i think i find actual negri (and esp actual lacan) v hard-going, but not the man slavoj.

Enrique (Enrique), Tuesday, 17 August 2004 09:28 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...
how does this book end?

cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 30 September 2004 07:11 (nineteen years ago) link

Capitalism did it.

Aynone read Saskia Sassen's 'Losing Control?'?

fcussen (Burger), Thursday, 30 September 2004 12:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Anyone read the "sequel," Multitude? I think I'm going to go pick it up today. Also I tried to think of an Empire 2: Electric Boogaloo joke but failed miserably.

adam (adam), Thursday, 7 October 2004 13:49 (nineteen years ago) link

I will buy that, tomorrow.

cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:19 (nineteen years ago) link

Apparently the NYT had Francis Fukuyama review it. ???

I'd like to read the review but I think I have a pretty good idea of what he thinks of Hardt & Negri, ie OMGWTF CAPITALISM PWNS.

adam (adam), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

haha, is it online? hook a brother up.

cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:26 (nineteen years ago) link

Here you go.

adam (adam), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link

MULTITUDE
War and Democracy
in the Age of Empire.
By Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri.
427 pp. The Penguin Press. $27.95.

Well before 9/11 and the Iraq war put the idea in everybody's mind, Michael Hardt and Antonio Negri had popularized the notion of a modern empire. Four years ago, they argued in a widely discussed book -- titled, as it happens, ''Empire'' -- that the globe was ruled by a new imperial order, different from earlier ones, which were based on overt military domination. This one had no center; it was managed by the world's wealthy nation-states (particularly the United States), by multinational corporations and by international institutions like the World Trade Organization and the International Monetary Fund. This empire -- a k a globalization -- was exploitative, undemocratic and repressive, not only for developing countries but also for the excluded in the rich West.

Hardt and Negri's new book, ''Multitude,'' argues that the antidote to empire is the realization of true democracy, ''the rule of everyone by everyone, a democracy without qualifiers.'' They say that the left needs to leave behind outdated concepts like the proletariat and the working class, which vastly oversimplify the gender/racial/ethnic/ class diversities of today's world. In their place they propose the term ''multitude,'' to capture the ''commonality and singularity'' of those who stand in opposition to the wealthy and powerful.

This book -- which lurches from analyses of intellectual property rules for genetically engineered animals to discourses on Dostoyevsky and the myth of the golem -- deals with an imaginary problem and a real problem. Unfortunately, it provides us with an imaginary solution to the real problem.

The imaginary problem stems from the authors' basic understanding of economics and politics, which remains at its core unreconstructedly Marxist. For them, there is no such thing as voluntary economic exchange, only coercive political hierarchy: any unequal division of rewards is prima facie evidence of exploitation. Private property is a form of theft. Globalization has no redeeming benefits whatsoever. (East Asia's rise from third- to first-world status in the last 50 years seems not to have registered on their mental map.) Similarly, democracy is not embodied in constitutions, political parties or elections, which are simply manipulated to benefit elites. The half of the country that votes Republican is evidently not part of the book's multitude.

To all this Hardt and Negri add an extremely confused theory, their take on what Daniel Bell labeled postindustrial society, and what has more recently been called the ''knowledge economy.'' The ''immaterial labor'' of knowledge workers differs from labor in the industrial era, Hardt and Negri say, because it produces not objects but social relations. It is inherently communal, which implies that no one can legitimately appropriate it for private gain. Programmers at Microsoft may be surprised to discover that because they collaborate with one another, their programs belong to everybody.

It's hard to know even how to engage this set of assertions. Globalization is a complex phenomenon; it produces winners and losers among rich and poor alike. But you would never learn about the complexities from reading ''Multitude.'' So let's move on to Hardt and Negri's real problem, which has to do with global governance.

We have at this point in human history evolved fairly good democratic political institutions, but only at the level of the nation-state. With globalization -- and increased flows of information, goods, money and people across borders -- countries are now better able to help, but also to harm, one another. In the 1990's, the harm was felt primarily through financial shocks and job losses, and since 9/11 it has acquired a military dimension as well. As the authors state, ''one result of the current form of globalization is that certain national leaders, both elected and unelected, gain greater powers over populations outside their own nation-states.''

The United States is uniquely implicated in this charge because of its enormous military, economic and cultural power. What drove people around the world crazy about the Bush administration's unilateral approach to the Iraq war was its assertion that it was accountable to no one but American voters for what it did in distant parts of the globe. And since institutions like the United Nations are woefully ill equipped to deal with democratic legitimacy, this democracy deficit is a real and abiding challenge at the international level.

The authors are conscious of the charge that they, like the Seattle anti-globalization protesters they celebrate, don't have any real solutions to these matters, so they spend some time discussing how to fix the present international institutions. Their problem is that any fixes are politically difficult if not impossible to bring about, and promise only marginal benefits. Democratic institutions that work at the nation-state level don't work at global levels. A true global democracy, in which all of the earth's billions of people actually vote, is an impossible dream, while existing proposals to modify the United Nations Security Council or change the balance of power between it and the General Assembly are political nonstarters. Making the World Bank and I.M.F. more transparent are worthy projects, but hardly solutions to the underlying issue of democratic accountability. The United States, meanwhile, has stood in the way of new institutions like the International Criminal Court.

It is at this point that Hardt and Negri take leave of reality -- arriving at an imaginary solution to their real problem. They argue that instead of ''repeating old rituals and tired solutions'' we need to begin ''a new investigation in order to formulate a new science of society and politics.'' The woolliness of the subsequent analysis is hard to overstate. According to them, the fundamental obstacle to true democracy is not just the monopoly of legitimate force held by nation-states, but the dominance implied in virtually all hierarchies, which give certain individuals authority over others. The authors dress up Marx's old utopia of the withering away of the state in the contemporary language of chaos theory and biological systems, suggesting that hierarchies should be replaced with networks that reflect the diversity and commonality of the ''multitude.''

The difficulty with this line of reasoning is that there is a whole class of issues networks can't resolve. This is why hierarchies, from nation-states to corporations to university departments, persist, and why so many left-wing movements claiming to speak on behalf of the people have ended up monopolizing power. Indeed, the powerlessness and poverty in today's world are due not to the excessive power of nation-states, but to their weakness. The solution is not to undermine sovereignty but to build stronger states in the developing world.

To illustrate, take the very different growth trajectories of East Asia and sub-Saharan Africa over the past generation. Two of the fastest growing economies in the world today happen to be in the two most populous countries, China and India; sub-Saharan Africa, by contrast, has tragically seen declining per capita incomes over the same period. At least part of this difference is the result of globalization: China and India have integrated themselves into the global economy, while sub-Saharan Africa is the one part of the world barely touched by globalization or multinational corporations.

But this raises the question of why India and China have been able to take advantage of globalization, while Africa has not. The answer has largely to do with the fact that the former have strong, well-developed state institutions providing basic stability and public goods. They had only to get out of the way of private markets to trigger growth. By contrast, modern states were virtually unknown in most of sub-Saharan Africa before European colonialism, and the weakness of states in the region has been the source of its woes ever since.

Any project, then, to fix the ills of ''empire'' has to begin with the strengthening, not the dismantling, of institutions at the nation-state level. This will not solve the problems of global governance, but surely any real advance here will come only through slow, patient innovation and the reform of international institutions. Hardt and Negri should remember the old insight of the Italian Marxist Antonio Gramsci, taken up later by the German Greens: progress is to be achieved not with utopian dreaming, but with a ''long march through institutions.''


Francis Fukuyama, a professor of international political economy at Johns Hopkins University, is the author of ''State-Building: Governance and World Order in the 21st Century.''

Published: 07 - 25 - 2004 , Late Edition - Final , Section 7 , Column 1 , Page 12

whodat (Cozen), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:31 (nineteen years ago) link

Fukuyama takes this weird position about strong nation-states needing to exist to combat the roughshod-riding of globalization over basic human needs--isn't this contrary to the entire neocon philosophy? (Hence the neocon-spurred castration of state sovereignty [see the thread about the new Aztec ruins Wal-Mart]) Or is Fukuyama just talking some game to get out of actually addressing Hardt & Negri's arguments? Grr now I have to go get this book. Then I will bitch some more.

adam (adam), Thursday, 7 October 2004 18:44 (nineteen years ago) link

I did not like the fukuyama article at all and started cursing and harrumphing when I got to his conclusions.

cºzen (Cozen), Friday, 8 October 2004 10:49 (nineteen years ago) link

Got it. The cover is v pretty, much nicer than my copy of Empire which looks like a print ad for a Hummer. However I think I may have to read this Philip Roth thing first to see if I can hop on the critical dicksucking bandwagon.

adam (adam), Friday, 8 October 2004 10:55 (nineteen years ago) link

Democratic institutions that work at the nation-state level don't work at global levels. A true global democracy, in which all of the earth's billions of people actually vote, is an impossible dream, while existing proposals to modify the United Nations Security Council or change the balance of power between it and the General Assembly are political nonstarters.

rrrRRRRrrrrrr

g--ff (gcannon), Friday, 8 October 2004 13:12 (nineteen years ago) link

four years pass...

wow i just read THE most idiotic quote from these dudes. basically: the evolution of the welfare state in europe '(i)n those first decades after the October Revolution' 'might be cast as a response to the threat conjured up by the Soviet experience, that is, to the increasing power of (the) workers' movement both at home and abroad.'

i suppose it 'might' if you wanted it to be and you were an idiot.

Gaz Promantino (Brohan Hari), Thursday, 1 January 2009 16:09 (fifteen years ago) link

yes let's get it out in the open the rise of the welfare state had nothing to do with the labor movement there i said it

BIG HOOS is not a nacho purist fwiw (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 1 January 2009 16:45 (fifteen years ago) link

you are joking right?

BIG HOOS is not a nacho purist fwiw (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 1 January 2009 16:45 (fifteen years ago) link

read it again:

"might be cast as a response to the threat conjured up by the Soviet experience, that is, to the increasing power of (the) workers' movement"

i mean sure, do go ahead and conflate the labour movement and the soviet experience, don't let basic chronology get in your way.

or indeed the hostility of many labour movements (in, say, germany or britain) for the soviets.

Gaz Promantino (Brohan Hari), Thursday, 1 January 2009 16:48 (fifteen years ago) link

Where "the Soviet experience" is understood as "the apparent success of a worker's state" I think it's hard to argue that portions of the international labor movement weren't galvanized to such a degree that they helped bring about the welfare state.

BIG HOOS is not a nacho purist fwiw (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 1 January 2009 17:02 (fifteen years ago) link

but sure, it's a bit intemperately broad if you like. it's continental shit!

BIG HOOS is not a nacho purist fwiw (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 1 January 2009 17:05 (fifteen years ago) link

<3 analytic shit more and more imo.

less creepily crypto-hegelian-stalinist.

Gaz Promantino (Brohan Hari), Thursday, 1 January 2009 17:37 (fifteen years ago) link

Late to post, but here's my review of Multitude:

http://www.citypages.com/2004-10-27/books/the-empire-strikes-back/

Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 1 January 2009 17:58 (fifteen years ago) link

the reality of the soviet experience didn't have much if anything to do with the "international workers' movement" of course but i'm sure it was perceived as something like that by a lot of governments at the time.

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Thursday, 1 January 2009 18:38 (fifteen years ago) link

two years pass...

Been thinking of picking this up again, given events in the Middle East.

Anyone read the two sequels?

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 26 February 2011 11:37 (thirteen years ago) link

there was a second sequel?

HOOStory is back. Fasten your steenbelts. (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Saturday, 26 February 2011 19:46 (thirteen years ago) link

dollar dollar bills yall

this odyssey that refuses to quit calling itself (history mayne), Saturday, 26 February 2011 19:54 (thirteen years ago) link

hope i dont have to read the first two to know what's going on

Romford Spring (DG), Saturday, 26 February 2011 20:03 (thirteen years ago) link

seven years pass...

anyone read the FOURTH book? it's called ASSEMBLY and i bought it today. after i'm gonna reread empire and see what's what

adam, Monday, 18 June 2018 20:58 (five years ago) link

also im gonna read it on the train with like a really serious face and sometimes i'll nod appreciatively and others i'll just chuckle to myself

adam, Monday, 18 June 2018 20:59 (five years ago) link

five years pass...

Antonio Negri (1933-2023) pic.twitter.com/iOaa3zDSpy

— Daniel Zamora Vargas (@DanielZamoraV) December 16, 2023

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 16 December 2023 12:22 (four months ago) link

blimey i was excited by this book -- y tho?

i would have to re-read it to recapture that i think

mark s, Saturday, 16 December 2023 12:44 (four months ago) link

empire, i mean -- i never read any of the sequels (chapterhouse of empire, god emperor of empire)

mark s, Saturday, 16 December 2023 12:45 (four months ago) link

still a solid and important book imo, 9/10ths of the critiques are from running dogs

Honnest Brish Face (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 16 December 2023 14:13 (four months ago) link

Negri and Hardt wrote a followup essay in NLR in 2019 that’s well worth reading and quite jargon free

https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii120/articles/empire-twenty-years-on

Humanitarian Pause (Tracer Hand), Saturday, 16 December 2023 15:30 (four months ago) link

that's a nice read, thanks for sharing

ꙮ (map), Saturday, 16 December 2023 16:55 (four months ago) link

Yup. Thanks, that's some read.

Thinking how much of the piece I can map to the odd twitter thread over the years.

When I read Empire I struggled quite a bit. But I wonder if I would sail through it now because I've basically read a lot of Marxist discourse via tweets.

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 16 December 2023 17:13 (four months ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.