Here's another clue for you all - GLASS ONION: A KNIVES OUT MYSTERY -- dir. Rian Johnson; Daniel Craig, Edward Norton, Kate Hudson, Dave Bautista, Janelle Monáe, etc etc

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(the menu, obv, I meant; I just copied and pasted there)

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Tuesday, 27 December 2022 19:24 (one year ago) link

I laughed much more than I did at the first one, the doubling-back didn't throw me too much, but I was somewhat disappointed that the disruptors weren't picked off one by one And Then There Were None style

Brad C., Tuesday, 27 December 2022 19:33 (one year ago) link

yeah i was kinda hoping for that too!

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 27 December 2022 19:36 (one year ago) link

same

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 27 December 2022 19:54 (one year ago) link

I think of what we got as an ending as a Last of Sheila nod instead, though. No stacks of bodies, more just a hell of a lot of vicious backstabbing complicity.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 December 2022 19:59 (one year ago) link

it was twistier to create that expectation and then go in a different direction

my other problem was the action movie finale with lots of shiny things blowing up but it was so carefully set up that it worked pretty well

Brad C., Tuesday, 27 December 2022 20:12 (one year ago) link

Was just watching Breaking Bad again with my kid, and I noticed Johnson's name pop up as director! Even a Noah Segan cameo.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 December 2022 20:43 (one year ago) link

I genuinely find “these people are too dangerous to satirize” to be one of the most baffling statements I’ve ever read

castanuts (DJP), Tuesday, 27 December 2022 20:53 (one year ago) link

yeah I'd disagree with that, I'd just say they are too annoying to want to spend lots of time with, whether they are being satirized or not.

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Tuesday, 27 December 2022 21:03 (one year ago) link

Like Chaplin explicitly satirized Hitler

I genuinely find “these people are too dangerous to satirize” to be one of the most baffling statements I’ve ever read

Lord Pickles (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 27 December 2022 21:04 (one year ago) link

Perhaps more along the lines of Jimmy Fallon giving Asshole a bit of a noogie

assert (matttkkkk), Tuesday, 27 December 2022 21:41 (one year ago) link

I didn't think Chaplin's Hitler movie so good either.

I genuinely find “these people are too dangerous to satirize” to be one of the most baffling statements I’ve ever read

― castanuts (DJP),

why?

Most of us here are aware of Musk's antics. I'm acquainted with several true believers too; they're funny in that they're pathetic would-be schemers too lazy to even aspire to charlatanism. Having lived through the Trump era, it's hard to take much delight in recognizing to what degree movie scripts have to catch up to match what I read on the NYT front page.

I mean, it's better for me to watch a picture like GO and imagine Norton, Hudson, etc. as 2020s versions of the malicious rotters from the old Agatha Christie adaptations and not think too much about what Rian Johnson intended.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 27 December 2022 21:46 (one year ago) link

To be fair, GO was a lot less specifically topical when it was written than when it came out. Elon would not have been quite so obviously top of mind if this had come out two years ago.

I genuinely find “these people are too dangerous to satirize” to be one of the most baffling statements I’ve ever read

the more dangerous someone is, the more richly they deserve satire, which is not! emphatically not! the same thing as "making fun of somebody." I have academic questions about what satire means/whether it's possible after a certain historical point but then there's plenty of examples from every era that say yes, you can do real satire in English (not Pope though nor any of that mild English stuff) -- Heller is a good example, Kubrick I think is good at it. I don't think GO is angry enough to really be satire, but I do think it's great. If somebody disliked both this & Everything Everywhere All at Once I'd consign them to the "your deal is you actually hate fun" bin for good.

J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 27 December 2022 22:35 (one year ago) link

I don't think GO is angry enough to really be satire

Boom. It's almost there thanks to Helen; she and Blanc are the moral centers.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 27 December 2022 22:40 (one year ago) link

Well that's partially why I invoked Last of Sheila above, which of course Johnson's never been shy about hiding -- Sondheim cameoed for several reasons -- but the difference between that film and the two Blancs so far is that there is NO moral center and the film is all the more delicious for that reason. Bemusingly the closest thing that film has to one might be Ian McShane's character, except he clearly isn't!

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 28 December 2022 00:28 (one year ago) link

lol @ HBO Max being the domain of the ultra-rich rather than the place you go to watch shiplap evangelicals and Game of Thrones.

papal hotwife (milo z), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 01:34 (one year ago) link

yeah but mind you alfred I think GO is fuckin spectacular, whether it's satire or not is a fun discussion to have about a movie that just gives love to the viewer from stem to stern

J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 03:18 (one year ago) link

Crossing my fingers for an underrated aerosmith bootleg needle drop in the next one tbh

G. D’Arcy Cheesewright (silby), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 04:18 (one year ago) link

My Big Ten Inch: Another Knives Out Mystery

Fash Gordon (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 04:21 (one year ago) link

Blancin' on Bobo

sloop johnnin' skater (geoffreyess), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 04:39 (one year ago) link

the lighthouse effect was super well done

Fellow film tech nerds, if you can't get enough of the ol' Vitrum Cepa this holiday season, settle in for a LONG #NerdyFilmTechStuff post on the lighting rigs we built for the heightened, theatrical, impressionistic lighthouse effect in @RianJohnson's #GlassOnion. pic.twitter.com/RLxIxFesyE

— Steve Yedlin (@steveyedlin) December 24, 2022

corrs unplugged, Wednesday, 28 December 2022 11:21 (one year ago) link

xps It's not so much angry as disappointed

maf you one two (maffew12), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 13:54 (one year ago) link

Yedlin's an absolute wizard & a great guy & that thread's terrific

J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 14:51 (one year ago) link

it's a cliche to say that something is so ridiculous that it's impossible to satirize (see: trump) but i do think that having cute ed norton buy the mona lisa and make little puzzles for his friends is not really an effective satire of sad, lonely elon musk buying twitter and immediately destroying it. does it seem like musk has any friends at all? like even ones that he paid for? i'm sure part of it was the timing of the writing of the movie, and i think GO functions well enough as a comedy that it doesn't bother me that it's not lacerating its targets or whatever.

na (NA), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 15:17 (one year ago) link

agreed, the timing of the writing of this movie did not set it up well to effectively satirize things that took place two years later!

Doctor Casino, Wednesday, 28 December 2022 15:32 (one year ago) link

also ed norton didn’t make the puzzles. that’s one of the (effective) jokes

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 17:05 (one year ago) link

Last night I rewatched Knives Out for the first time since it came out. I was struck by how much more naturalistic it was compared to Glass Onion. The new one really leans into the glitz and glamour and overall spectacle, and in doing so ends up being quite a bit more cartoony.

― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, December 21, 2022 3:14 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink

OTM. I literally groaned at the puzzle box invitation thing - right away you know you're in for something much more ridiculous than a parody of manorial murder mysteries. The whole "mad scientist on his island" milieu holds much less appeal for me - likewise I'm generally less interested in a character who is an obvious Alex Jones or Elon Musk parody than one who doesn't have those obvious connotations.

Nearly all of central characters being entirely unlikable doesn't help either. I know that's kind of the "thing" these days - look at these rich assholes - but it really holds very little interest for me.

ian, Wednesday, 28 December 2022 17:22 (one year ago) link

I lost it at Bautista having a google alert set up for the word "movie"

hiroyoshi tins in (Sgt. Biscuits), Wednesday, 28 December 2022 18:51 (one year ago) link

(benoit blanc getting ratatouilled) muh gawd, this creatuh – well, this RAT – he's controllin muh ev'ry move like i'm some sortuh puppet! damn this infernal rodentia, movin me against muh will... but i'd be lyin if i said i didnt wannuh see wheyuh this goes

— zach silberberg (@zachsilberberg) December 27, 2022

frogbs, Thursday, 29 December 2022 04:06 (one year ago) link

Enjoyed this watch, and if he's said some details elsewhere in turn it's still a good summary of how he's approaching these films

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IM1AEbnGX4

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 December 2022 04:21 (one year ago) link

Feel like there's a bit of Knives Out revisionism going on here - it's arch and artificial as fuck and super not subtle in its social satire, has exactly as many sympathetic characters as this one does. I don't mind any of those things but they're pretty dominant in both.

Daniel_Rf, Thursday, 29 December 2022 10:39 (one year ago) link

I think the fact that Knives Out takes place in a cozy New England mansion and centers on a family makes it feel like a charming update of a traditional murder mystery, whereas Glass Onion feels more like the setting of a superhero movie, with characters that feel more like a league of villains than an actual group of friends. It may be no more satirical, but it all feels more garish.

jaymc, Thursday, 29 December 2022 14:29 (one year ago) link

i disliked the breaking glass climax a great deal. happy to see the mona lisa consumed though

― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Monday, December 26, 2022 7:52 PM (three days ago)

i was unreasonably stressed by everybody running around in sandals during that scene. in janelle's slo-mo run towards the mona lisa at the end, noticed that every step miraculously landed in a non-glass covered area - so maybe the broken glass was added in post?

, Thursday, 29 December 2022 14:48 (one year ago) link

I kept thinking about cut bare feet too.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 December 2022 14:53 (one year ago) link

i enjoyed this, i don't think i'll think about it again. biggest difference between this and the first one was with the first one you felt you at least had a chance of figuring out who did it, invites the viewer in. here that's thrown out the window with the introduction of the twin sister and half an hour long flashback that turns everything that came before it on its head. it feels more like a rollercoaster on rails than a choose your own adventure. but whatever, it's fun!

, Thursday, 29 December 2022 14:53 (one year ago) link

https://i.imgur.com/oJucJKk.jpg

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 29 December 2022 15:01 (one year ago) link

I thought the broken glass would pay off in some way (like, Norton's character would be hurled into it) and was disappointed in that respect.

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 29 December 2022 15:08 (one year ago) link

It's there as cover for breaking the bar, I think?

None of the twist has anything to do with the initial whodunnit, though. They play absolutely fair with that - the "Duke don't dance with pineapple", Myles handing Duke his drink, whatever Birdie's drink was. We don't know what the other mystery is until after the twist introduces it.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 29 December 2022 15:27 (one year ago) link

yeah but reveal of the second mystery by the twist steamrolls the initial whodunnit and also delivers the answer to you in a bowtie - the denouement isn't really that satisfying, hence needing the climax of glass breaking etc.

, Thursday, 29 December 2022 15:32 (one year ago) link

also, pineapple is a pretty distinct flavor, surprised that duke didn't pick up on it in his drink immediately but maybe he was already pretty wasted / preoccupied with how to blackmail miles at that point. rian johnson in shambles at these plot holes.

, Thursday, 29 December 2022 15:38 (one year ago) link

also, obviously should have been a soy allergy, not a pineapple allergy, duh

, Thursday, 29 December 2022 15:43 (one year ago) link

An interesting take from Ethan Iverson, a jazz pianist, huge crime fiction fan, and small-c conservative (which is why it's surprising — to me anyway — that this is running in The Nation instead of The Bulwark or The New Criterion).

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 29 December 2022 19:11 (one year ago) link

i enjoyed this, i don't think i'll think about it again. biggest difference between this and the first one was with the first one you felt you at least had a chance of figuring out who did it, invites the viewer in. here that's thrown out the window with the introduction of the twin sister and half an hour long flashback that turns everything that came before it on its head. it feels more like a rollercoaster on rails than a choose your own adventure. but whatever, it's fun!

― 龜, Thursday, December 29, 2022 9:53 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

having seen it twice now, this is where i am with it too. i enjoyed it, i found it funny and i loved the ending and several performances. i think my biggest issue is that the movie has no justification for withholding the helen/blanc backstory aside from shocking the audience with a fun twist. there's no formal reason for us not to be aware of helen and blanc cooperating from the start, those scenes on the island are withheld from us simply because the film wants to withhold them. it does make for a fun rollercoaster ride but a weird detective story where machinations of the detective himself are used to misdirect us, to the extent that we don't even know whose murder he's investigating for half the movie.

i have other issues with it, probably more complaints than praise at this point, but i'm also 100% on board for more benoit blanc movies and will devour whatever comes next

, Thursday, 29 December 2022 19:34 (one year ago) link

Agree that the mystery part was more muddled than KN1 and whoever it was here who suggested that Johnson get a co-writer next time.

Lord Pickles (Boring, Maryland), Thursday, 29 December 2022 19:49 (one year ago) link

lol the Nation piece refers to it as “Jerold Leto hard kombucha.” Great proofreading!

Judi Dench's Human Hand (methanietanner), Thursday, 29 December 2022 19:55 (one year ago) link

xpost *calls up Gillian Flynn* Er wait.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 December 2022 19:56 (one year ago) link

good old Benoit deciphering the entire murder mystery party game instantly was pleasing

mh, Thursday, 29 December 2022 21:55 (one year ago) link

"what the hell, man?"

sleeve, Thursday, 29 December 2022 22:04 (one year ago) link

machinations of the detective himself are used to misdirect us, to the extent that we don't even know whose murder he's investigating for half the movie

This is completely true and completely awesome.

Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 29 December 2022 22:05 (one year ago) link


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