bit¢oin$

xp thank you 龜! will give that Northwestern article look. and need to read more on the last point re: are cryptos a security. as with everything crypto, it's a bit elusive for me.

now I'm no fancy big city lawyer your honor, I'm just a simple farmer. But I can tell you one thing - if it smells like shit, you're probably steppin in it.

xp It makes intuitive sense to me that something like bitcoin isn't a security.

The Howey test defines a security as "an investment of money in a common enterprise with profits to come solely from the efforts of others; and, if that test be satisfied, it is immaterial whether the enterprise is speculative or nonspeculative, or whether there is a sale of property with or without intrinsic value”.

A coin like bitcoin or doesn't have profits and it isn't a common enterprise. However I think there are specific situations where they found a coin or token to be a security because the way it was designed it was basically just an investment vehicle labeled as a crypto coin/token.

It's weird though. Like a piece of property isn't a security, but you could divide up the ownership interest in a piece of property ten ways and the ownership interests are securities. So you could probably do the same with a fund that just owns a bunch of bitcoin and the interests could be securities. Like you own one bitcoin - the bitcoin isn't a security. You own 1/10 of a fund that owns 10 bitocins - your 1/10 of 10 bitcoins is a security.

I guess the idea is that with the 10 bitcoin fund, you now have an ownership interest in an enterprise and hypothetically need the protection of regulations that make sure the enterprise or its owners aren't defrauding you. Whereas bitcoin itself can't defraud you.

It's weird though. Like a piece of property isn't a security, but you could divide up the ownership interest in a piece of property ten ways and the ownership interests are securities.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, January 6, 2023 9:49 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

they even call it securitizing

yep, and securities of an ownership interest in a piece of real property is a REIT (a popular investing vehicle whose securities are traded on many securities exchanges)

That’s true, but Rule 10b5-1, which codifies what insider trading is in a securities context, has been on the books for over 20 years (I think

Now I’m curious to look up attempts to impose criminal or civil liability for insider trading outside the securities context. Fun Friday.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, January 6, 2023 8:52 AM (six hours ago)

yeah but how many insider trading cases are brought exclusively under 10b5-1 ? this memo a few years after adoption suggests not many: https://www.akingump.com/a/web/1044/aogHi/683.pdf

as far as i can tell, 10b5-1 is just used for c-suite folks to design trading plans that let them sell stock into the market because 10b5-1 outlines the affirmative defenses you can have for doing so, and when they get pinched it's for not adhering to those plans: https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2022/10/10/sec-charges-executives-with-insider-trading-10b5-1-plan-provided-no-defense/

if you look at the language of 10b5-1 too, it's nonexclusive - it says insider trading "includes, among other things, blah blah blah..." the SEC knows better than to pigeonhole itself into a narrower definition.

https://fakemoneynews.substack.com/p/shorting-tether-for-fun-and-profit

think it goes a lil deeper than counter party and protocol risk described in that piece, call it ecosystem risk once tether depegs the entire crypto economy crashes eg the usdc their using for their trade will depeg too, shorts prob wouldve taken it all down by now otherwise which is an interesting situation

This entire thread is quoted in a new CFTC civil complaint against himhttps://t.co/oYSmbu4Ik0 https://t.co/dfXNxAn8CF pic.twitter.com/68LJrfs90x

— Jacob Silverman (@SilvermanJacob) January 9, 2023

police love social media

thats civil but he was also arrested

👇Arrested in Puerto Rico yesterday and charged with commodities fraud and manipulating the Mango crypto exchangehttps://t.co/MT31TPcmda https://t.co/gFy2FJNBm9

— Jacob Silverman (@SilvermanJacob) December 28, 2022

oopsy

when you find yourself about to tweet "I believe all of our actions were legal" maybe talk to your lawyer instead

that's what I love about these guys, they will post through it no matter how many times a lawyer says to stop

crypto snitches, tweeting all their business
sit in the court and be their own star witness

the answer I'd jump to is "because it's a scam" but this guy has more thoughts

https://fakemoneynews.substack.com/p/shorting-tether-for-fun-and-profit

Welp, crypto insider trading is *officially* a thing now:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/tippee-pleads-guilty-first-ever-cryptocurrency-insider-trading-case

Basically the guy got inside info from Coinbase on which currencies were about to be listed and would trade them before the listing was announced.

same scenario as the nft one, kinda funny prices driven by availability on an exchange rather than say some sort of financial quality

#onethread

Markets are highly unstable institutions. When other institutions exhibit such instability, we question, criticize, change or end them. But market idolatry is like religion. People dare not think critically about markets. Most just suffer them meekly. https://t.co/J80jq8EiEQ pic.twitter.com/3lwloYK4fm

— Richard D. Wolff (@profwolff) January 9, 2023

all sorts of anti social behavior spiked during the pandemic

Frog that seems like kind of a simplistic tweet from an often simplistic dude. Are you quoting it unironically/uncritically?

I'm just amused both graphs have the same shape

/Welp, crypto insider trading is *officially* a thing now:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/tippee-pleads-guilty-first-ever-cryptocurrency-insider-trading-case

Basically the guy got inside info from Coinbase on which currencies were about to be listed and would trade them before the listing was announced.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, January 10, 2023 11:48 AM (twenty-three minutes ago)

wire fraud charge and not a 10b-5 charge...

still waiting for The Big One

yeah I don't think they're going to do crypto insider trading as securities fraud. At least not most of it. As I said upthread there are situations where you can argue that a "Crypto" asset is a security, but the "coins" themselves (btc, eth, etc.) typically aren't.

i love wolff. great tiktoks from a professor emeritus imo

As I said upthread there are situations where you can argue that a "Crypto" asset is a security, but the "coins" themselves (btc, eth, etc.) typically aren't.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, January 10, 2023 12:24 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

as you said right after i said

i said it first but very quietly

Crypto lender Nexo, which pulled out of the US market last month, is being investigated in its home country of Bulgaria. Offices raided. https://t.co/0jaBMZVMmR pic.twitter.com/lyNI05a4BD

— Jacob Silverman (@SilvermanJacob) January 12, 2023

https://sambf.substack.com/

this guy will never take a lawyer's advice to shut up. just posting through it all

truly bizarre behavior

🚨 SEC sues Genesis and Geminihttps://t.co/XpA5YjiiXh

— kadhim (＾ｰ^)ノ (@kadhim) January 12, 2023

a promise to pay interest is definitely a hallmark of a security lol

It is, although an interest-bearing savings account isn't a security.

https://sambf.substack.com/

this guy will never take a lawyer's advice to shut up. just posting through it all

― mh, Thursday, January 12, 2023 1:57 PM (eight hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

This guy is so fucking ridiculous. It's like he's saying, "I didn't deliberately break your priceless china, I just juggled it without asking, and I don't know how to juggle, so I didn't do anything wrong."

he really thinks he going to use his amazing pitch skills to talk his way out of this, getting all that money goes to your head

probably was told he was a genius his entire life, never held accountable for anything

feel like there are a lot of people who fit that description that would nonetheless at least listen to their lawyer once under federal indictment, this guy is special

If FTX had been given a few weeks to raise the necessary liquidity, I believe it would have been able to make customers substantially whole.

Nice to have an unfalsifiable narrative that you can repeat to the end of time.

you all don't understand, he needs to get all the money back so that he can give it away at the end of his life

🤞

"We can't pay the price of the demo tapes unless we take the demo tapes to the record company and get paid!"
"Hello, exactly!"

lol

pretty funny bitcoin is up 15% over the last few days of terrible crypto news just goes to show you how fake it is

surely cryptocurrency won't rise again in value against all conventional wisdom and with nothing solid underpinning its existence

Some “whale” (I hate using their terminology) I’m sure is pumping it right now.

or all of them coordinating

crypto pumping slobo whale

or all of them coordinating

ums looool

tbf "whale" is not crypto-specific

e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_JPMorgan_Chase_trading_loss