And to be fair, Johnson has explicitly said that he's taking a Christie approach where not every mystery/story/etc has to be the same or work the same or have the same tone etc. He wants to vary it up, and some things will work more than others depending on the viewer. I mean, I'm already very interested in whatever the third film will be regardless of what the hell approach/setting/etc he takes.
― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 17:03 (four months ago) link
Lily, agreed very much about the overall differences - great description of why KO worked so well.
I do think I enjoyed GO just a little more than you did; I guess for me the ending pyrotechnics still have the 'satisfying puzzle' feel, because we're seeing the two heroes smartly put together several different pieces of information to identify exactly how this scorched-earth solution could be achieved, and why it would work.
― got it in the blood, the kid's a pelican (Doctor Casino), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 17:20 (four months ago) link
Extremely minor point but I appreciate that Benoit quoted the line "my God, it's full of stars" as being from 2010: The Year They Make Contact, not 2001 (I know it's in the book 2001, but more importantly it's not in the movie).
― Chris L, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 18:11 (four months ago) link
I thought that was kind of the point of the ending, they had to find a way to ruin the mythology of Miles Bron. having his 'clean' fuel source torch his own mansion and ruin one of the most famous artworks of all time seems like it would probably do it. not to mention the murder of two people close to him. it's hard to imagine "Alpha" sticking around much longer after that.
― frogbs, Tuesday, January 10, 2023 11:56 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
No billionaire has nor would ever face consequences for anything ever
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 18:36 (four months ago) link
― frogbs, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 18:39 (four months ago) link
Michael Milken was the equivalent of a billionaire in today's dollars
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 18:46 (four months ago) link
man I thought about it a little and a high school chemistry teacher wouldn't be able to defeat a cartel, so now I don't like Breaking Bad anymore
― fentanyl young (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 19:09 (four months ago) link
they literally have this conversation in the movie iirc
― Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 10 January 2023 19:29 (four months ago) link
― bit high, bitch (gyac), Tuesday, 10 January 2023 19:34 (four months ago) link
even more extremely minor point, miles wasn't playing blackbird correctly, or at least not how mccartney plays it. maybe accidental, but the camera did linger on the fretting hand right at the pertinent moment.
― ledge, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 09:00 (four months ago) link
thats when i knew who did it
― mark s, Wednesday, 11 January 2023 09:28 (four months ago) link
i think one of the reasons i got taken out of this bc i watched with my parents and they found the internet jokes incomprehensible
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Wednesday, January 4, 2023 7:45 PM (one week ago) bookmarkflaglink
Yeah same, they didn't understand anything or know who the people being caricatured were.
pinefox and also dan SUPER otm about what makes mysteries interesting/good. Right after watching GO I thought about the really classic whodunnit and decided that the sleuth doesn't necessarily have MORE information than the others (or the reader) but they perceive/understand it differently, they're not misdirected by their expectations.
GO didn't give anything to go on and felt quite cold (funnily enough for being set on a mediterranean island). I loved the jokes but I didn't like any of the people.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 18:45 (four months ago) link
I loved the subversion of the puzzle box, how in so many stories solving it would be the WHOLE story, it would be impossibly convoluted, etc, whereas here it was shallow and took minutes. When Monae smashed hers in the garage I knew right away she was going to be the only sane one! Great moment. I thought it had great moments like that but kept getting in its own way.
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 18:49 (four months ago) link
BB was way less of an idiot this time around, yeah? didn't love that.
― death generator (lukas), Wednesday, 11 January 2023 19:29 (four months ago) link
I loved the jokes but I didn't like any of the people.
Yeah this was one of the key issues for me with GO. The Knives Out crew were equally reprehensible but they were flawed in a more relatable way and the film took care to give them some nice character moments e.g. Jamie Lee Curtis' relationship with her father; Meg the niece who is otherwise kind and reasonable as long as her own interests aren't being threatened; even Ransom was seen as somewhat sympathetic (or maybe we're just primed for that because he's being played by Captain America). I guess Peg and Whisky had their own moments too in GO but neither felt sufficiently fleshed out in comparison.
I also think KO was better served by having Marta as the main audience proxy rather than Benoit - it's much more fun watching how he works through someone else's eyes, plus we're constantly anxious for her so when the twist/reveal arrives, it's not just satisfactory but comes as a huge relief
― Roz, Thursday, 12 January 2023 04:29 (four months ago) link
Roz: I agree, I think it's not so much that those characters are more likeable (though you're right), more that they cohere as a group. The GO group didn't seem like a group at all, but a random assortment.
in orbit: It would be fair to say that in a detective story the sleuth should NOT have more information than the reader - if they do it is 'unfair', according to the (laughable if you like) classical rules of the Detection Club et al. While such strict rules are absurd, I think this principle stands.
in orbit: "Yeah same, they didn't understand anything or know who the people being caricatured were." Nor do I. I think that the Miles Bron character might be like Elon Musk, but otherwise the characters didn't remind me of anyone in particular.
I feel much in agreement with those for whom character was a problem in GO.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 12 January 2023 11:42 (four months ago) link
I think some of this is a proxy for the fact that the characters just stood out more in Knives Out - there wasn't really a lot for Leslie Odom Jr, or Katherine Hahn to do, they were slight variations on "dependent on Miles, but resentful of it" and without much screen time that couldn't have been amalgamated, the Thrombeys were more varied in their relationships with Harlan, and each other.
― Andrew Farrell, Thursday, 12 January 2023 20:49 (four months ago) link
“I’m not here!”
― The Triumphant Return of Bernard & Stubbs (Raymond Cummings), Saturday, 21 January 2023 01:33 (four months ago) link