Here's another clue for you all - GLASS ONION: A KNIVES OUT MYSTERY -- dir. Rian Johnson; Daniel Craig, Edward Norton, Kate Hudson, Dave Bautista, Janelle Monáe, etc etc

I loved the subversion of the puzzle box, how in so many stories solving it would be the WHOLE story, it would be impossibly convoluted, etc, whereas here it was shallow and took minutes. When Monae smashed hers in the garage I knew right away she was going to be the only sane one! Great moment. I thought it had great moments like that but kept getting in its own way.

BB was way less of an idiot this time around, yeah? didn't love that.

I loved the jokes but I didn't like any of the people.

Yeah this was one of the key issues for me with GO. The Knives Out crew were equally reprehensible but they were flawed in a more relatable way and the film took care to give them some nice character moments e.g. Jamie Lee Curtis' relationship with her father; Meg the niece who is otherwise kind and reasonable as long as her own interests aren't being threatened; even Ransom was seen as somewhat sympathetic (or maybe we're just primed for that because he's being played by Captain America). I guess Peg and Whisky had their own moments too in GO but neither felt sufficiently fleshed out in comparison.

I also think KO was better served by having Marta as the main audience proxy rather than Benoit - it's much more fun watching how he works through someone else's eyes, plus we're constantly anxious for her so when the twist/reveal arrives, it's not just satisfactory but comes as a huge relief

Roz: I agree, I think it's not so much that those characters are more likeable (though you're right), more that they cohere as a group. The GO group didn't seem like a group at all, but a random assortment.

in orbit: It would be fair to say that in a detective story the sleuth should NOT have more information than the reader - if they do it is 'unfair', according to the (laughable if you like) classical rules of the Detection Club et al. While such strict rules are absurd, I think this principle stands.

in orbit: "Yeah same, they didn't understand anything or know who the people being caricatured were." Nor do I. I think that the Miles Bron character might be like Elon Musk, but otherwise the characters didn't remind me of anyone in particular.

I feel much in agreement with those for whom character was a problem in GO.

I think some of this is a proxy for the fact that the characters just stood out more in Knives Out - there wasn't really a lot for Leslie Odom Jr, or Katherine Hahn to do, they were slight variations on "dependent on Miles, but resentful of it" and without much screen time that couldn't have been amalgamated, the Thrombeys were more varied in their relationships with Harlan, and each other.

“I’m not here!”