This is the thread where we discuss matters pertaining to the detrius that accompanies the "End of the Year in Cinema" -- 2022

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agh, too many personals, but just the everyday struggle to keep on top of life and the chaos and constant worry that things are falling apart, the striving to provide and taking care of older relatives, and people are not cool or confident or sassy, they're all only just about holding it together in their own ways and are unable to easily empathise with each other even though we're all in the same boat, because we're too busy dealing with our own shit, that speech about emotional strength is exactly the one I've tried to have with my wife so many times - and seeing all of this represented not as a dour drama that nobody will see but as a mainstream movie everyone is watching, it's just one of the best things that happened in 2022.

― Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, January 25, 2023 1:14 AM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Would love to see this movie without all the "Marvel bullshit."

jaymc, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 15:10 (one year ago) link

Yeah but that approach could be its own problem. I said this on FB in a thread about the film yesterday:

...(imagine if) it kept the same general cast and setting it could have in other hands and in other times been nothing more than a vaguely worthy Oscar-bait drama, one that Hollywood would use to pat itself on the back that they're 'telling these stories now' -- a very 90s kind of nominee in turn, maybe the space (from lack of multiverse etc) would have been filled in with a 'wacky but loveable' laundry patron with a catchphrase or two, etc. etc. Maybe it could work that way, maybe it would be just dull.

And I'll add now I'm willing to believe it would be very earnest and very dull that way! That Daniels are clearly incredibly visually oriented by default is a major plus.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 15:26 (one year ago) link

Separately, saw this new All Quiet on the Western Front: I do wonder if being very familiar with the original 1930 movie as well as having read the original novel shapes my thought on it. I agreed with a friend that the real pathos of those versions is lost in the new plot construction here. Essentially I wasn't feeling the running subplot of the official armistice negotiations and the actions of the German general and all that -- the point of the book/original movie lies in the ground's eye view, and the novel and original movie both end some time short of the actual armistice, so the dynamic is different in key ways in this one. Still, it did do a lot of riffing on many of the key 'set pieces' of the core narrative -- the 'food for 150 men but only 80 here' part, the torn poster, etc. and that was nice to see; certainly gruesome at many points, it's no more or less artful/realistic than 1917 visually, and no one-take gimmick as such applies. And, admittedly, really nice to finally have an adaptation of the story in German. I did find out the 1979 version is on Kanopy over here so I'm going to go back to that in turn at some point; that was the first version I ever saw back when it aired.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 15:31 (one year ago) link

The original Milestone film uses the limitations of sound design with imagination; you hear every cry of agony, every muffled cry for help.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 15:35 (one year ago) link

many many xps but i also thought of pig when watching the menu, tho the former was vastly better on every level (the menu was fine)

sault bae (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 15:43 (one year ago) link

xpost Yeah the sound design has always sat with me from that version. The general lack of a musical soundtrack, careful editing, a bit of diagetic music here and there and attention to detail with the conversations and exchanges, but above all else the impact of every shell, somehow worse in impact and feeling than anything in a modern sound mix.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 15:45 (one year ago) link

I haven't watched it yet but all signs point to All Quiet being the very prestige TV version of the material

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 15:46 (one year ago) link

It's also inescapable that in 1930 the impact of those shells only had a decade-plus to reverberate.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 15:48 (one year ago) link

I'd like to think there's a middle ground between the hyperactive, visually maximalist comic-book version and the earnest, dull '90s Oscar bait version of EEAAO. Thinking about the sensibilities of filmmakers like Mike Leigh or Nicole Holofcener, who obviously wouldn't be the right fit for telling the story of this particular family, but who excel at portrayals of families and relationships that are messy and humanistic and leavened by humor. IDK.

jaymc, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 16:00 (one year ago) link

But whatever. I didn't actually hate EEAAO, I actually thought a lot of it was pretty fun. I just didn't connect with it on more than a superficial level, and so all of the awards attention makes me a bit grumpy.

jaymc, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 16:05 (one year ago) link

I'm glad EEAAO got made, attracted this cast, and was the right sort of movie to draw people into theaters (again and again). It earned its good will. But count me among those exhausted by the 50-minute mark.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 16:06 (one year ago) link

I think the problem for me is that something like the buttplug fight is also, just, dull. It might prompt an easy laugh at first, but it isn't interesting or fun to think about later on. Most of the visual gags and action bits in the movie felt like that to me.

The core idea of a family multiverse movie is not the problem, but the flipping between universes starts to feel really excessive and unconstrained at a certain point. To me it would be more satisfying if the travel between universes felt more genuinely clever and controlled (which it is for much of the first half).

jmm, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 16:07 (one year ago) link

This was the rest of my FB comment about that point -- obviously it won't be for everyone, but here's how I felt it:

But the seemingly exhausting overload of all the everything else is something that resonates with me in particular -- obviously I'm not saying I suddenly equate myself with these core characters on a deep personal level, I do not! Their experiences aren't mine. But the quicksilver nature of accumulated cultural imagery and flights of fancy, the what ifs and the surrealisms, how we shape and process it all internally as it all accelerates with time, these have shaped me now for maybe my whole life in a default, and I suspect that's the case for a lot of us one way or another. Watching it was like riding the best rollercoaster ever, the happiest and craziest ride, and with a hell of an emotional undertow at the heart of it all. It wasn't exhausting, it was thrilling, it was like a peek into how the mind works, and it felt like a relief to actually see that being engaged and illustrated, like we don't experience something as one story but multiple ones, and how the serious moments in life can have strange images crowd into our heads unbidden, as much as the silly ones do.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 16:21 (one year ago) link

I like how chaotic it is, how this very complex plot is almost left in the background, using ridiculously high-concept fantasy ideas to explore the human condition is an underexploited trope if anything IMO.

Now yes, the buttplug fight, and the hot dog fingers universe and especially the chef with a racoon under his hat were weak parts for sure, but I can accept all as "stuff for other viewers" which is quickly moved on from - I also generally have no time for action movies, especially Marvel superhero movies, but I didn't see much of that at all - it was more like if Stephen Chow made a superhero movie (which would obviously be 1000x better than anything from the MCU) But so much of the self-discovery required this extreme perspective, and some of the fantastic conceits (like when they are rocks) are genuinely brilliant.

I would like a film about this family made by a Chinese Mike Leigh, I might even like it more than EEAAO, but it would be a fundamentally different film.

Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 16:34 (one year ago) link

I'm surprised I haven't seen more discussion of Scott Pilgrim in re EEAAO, since it seems like an obvious precursor in using superhero/fantasy tropes to tell a story about normal people's emotional lives.

Also very well put Ned, great post(s)

Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 16:40 (one year ago) link

But count me among those exhausted by the 50-minute mark.
feel like most of the criticism I see of the film is about the first hour, or even first half hour, when all the best parts are in the last 40 minutes

Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 16:42 (one year ago) link

Too restless by then!

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 16:43 (one year ago) link

yeah, I tried watching EEAAO on a plane, which was probably not the ideal setting, but I also had to tap out after about an hour. I did feel like there was something to the characters and the story but overall just found it too overwhelming and silly

k3vin k., Wednesday, 25 January 2023 18:58 (one year ago) link

i found the 2nd half particularly excruciating. it felt like the epic Marvel version of every bad improv show: "ok now suggest an item for us to fight with. BUTT plugs?! haha oh man, this audience tonight is crazy, but ok, you asked for it!!" call me a fun-hater if you must, i dont need it to be some boring Sundance drama, but 2h20m of LOL Random Epic Zombie Bacon: The Movie was... not for me

waste of compute (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 20:05 (one year ago) link

butt plugs was from the first half, also fuck off

Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 20:14 (one year ago) link

sorry CaAL. ive done a lot of talking, now its time to do some listening and make room for healing, i hope we can all grow from this experience of me forgetting which part of the movie had the butt plugs

waste of compute (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 20:21 (one year ago) link

There's a segment of Film Twitter that's so irony-poisoned it's stifling (I know this is not exclusive to Film Twitter).

― Chris L, Wednesday, January 25, 2023 6:31 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

it's the worst aspect of film twitter, so much of it comes off as dead-eyed sociopath anti-discourse

omar little, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 20:28 (one year ago) link

very very not exclusive to film twitter obv

omar little, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 20:29 (one year ago) link

sorry to be clear the "fuck off" was for "Random Epic Zombie Bacon: The Movie" - the "I hate the second half of this film because (something from the first half)" was incidental.

Camaraderie at Arms Length, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 20:39 (one year ago) link

oh cool

waste of compute (One Eye Open), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 20:44 (one year ago) link

xxp Guessing part of the reason is that it's very hard to stand out for film opinions/analysis

jmm, Wednesday, 25 January 2023 20:46 (one year ago) link

Watching WOMEN TALKING, the film allegory of the feminist movement, I was struck at how in the film, as in real life, no women of color were included. The film stated it was a true story in “the female imagination”. Even in the feminist utopia, women of color aren’t considered.

— Wendell Pierce (@WendellPierce) January 24, 2023

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Wednesday, 25 January 2023 23:59 (one year ago) link

Says a guy who not long ago was charged with assaulting a woman for talking.

Chris L, Thursday, 26 January 2023 00:03 (one year ago) link

Sometimes, you do things without thinking, Then you are called out for it. Then you get it. It’s why the Razzies were created in the first place.

The recent valid criticism of the choice of 11 year old Armstrong as a nominee for one of our awards brought our attention to how insensitive we’ve been in this instance. As a result, we have removed Armstrong’s name from the Final Ballot that our members will cast next month. We also believe a public apology is owed Ms. Armstrong, and wish to say we regret any hurt she experienced as a result of our choices.

Having learned from this lesson, we would also like to announce that, from this point forward, we are adopting a Voting Guideline precluding any performer or film-maker under 18 years of age from being considered for our awards.

We have never intended to bury anyone’s career. It is why our Redeemer Award was created. We all make mistakes, very much us included.

Since our motto is “Own Your Bad,” we realize that we ourselves must also live up to it.

John Wilson, The Razzie Awards

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Thursday, 26 January 2023 13:34 (one year ago) link

Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences confirmed Friday that it is “conducting a review of campaign procedures” in the wake of Andrea Riseborough’s surprise Oscar nomination for the small indie film “To Leslie.”

The Academy released a statement Friday regarding the campaign, though it didn’t mention “To Leslie” specifically.

“It is the Academy’s goal to ensure that the Awards competition is conducted in a fair and ethical manner, and we are committed to ensuring an inclusive awards process,” the statement reads. “We are conducting a review of the campaign procedures around this year’s nominees, to ensure that no guidelines were violated, and to inform us whether changes to the guidelines may be needed in a new era of social media and digital communication. We have confidence in the integrity of our nomination and voting procedures, and support genuine grassroots campaigns for outstanding performances.”

how is a successful campaign by celebrity fans less valid than one involving a push by a studio and publicists and ads?

Dan S, Saturday, 28 January 2023 01:09 (one year ago) link

supposedly if people phoned up members directly and asked them to promote it/vote for it that's bad? and/or if people involved with the film explicitly mentioned other possible candidates for nomination? it all seems very baroque tbh

tambourine, Saturday, 28 January 2023 01:35 (one year ago) link

it's horseshit imo.
Riseborough's a good actress but this film looks slight. I should watch it.

POLIZISTEN VERSINKEN IM SCHLAMM (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 28 January 2023 05:25 (one year ago) link

finally saw aftersun and it is 100 percent great

flamenco drop (BradNelson), Sunday, 29 January 2023 16:59 (one year ago) link


Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 29 January 2023 17:06 (one year ago) link

The New Yorker’s YouTube channel has five of the nominated short films (2 animated, 2 docs, 1 live action).

I just finished Stranger at the Gate, one of the documentary short nominees. Not totally sure how I feel about it but it is definitely compelling - about a war vet with ptsd who comes to the brink of committing a mass shooting.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:21 (one year ago) link

btw in case you're curious, a quick search on these platforms will find these various shorts, all ranging from about 7 to 40 minutes.

Documentary Short


HOW DO YOU MEASURE A YEAR? - not currently on streaming



Animated Short





Live Action Short
AN IRISH GOODBYE - not on streaming

IVALU - not on streaming

LE PUPILLE - Disney+


THE RED SUITCASE - not on streaming

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:26 (one year ago) link

Haulout dropped my jaw

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:43 (one year ago) link

night ride sucks
my year of dicks and the ostrich short are both pretty good

POLIZISTEN VERSINKEN IM SCHLAMM (forksclovetofu), Monday, 30 January 2023 17:57 (one year ago) link

Yeah, Night Ride was a big disappointment; Ivalu was even worse

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Monday, 30 January 2023 18:33 (one year ago) link

I liked Haulout too.

The more I think about Stranger at the Gate, the more I wish it were a much longer doc. At ~25 minutes it really simplifies what was likely an extremely layered and complex reality.

In the animated category, The Ice Merchants and The Flying Sailor both had nice animation styles but the narratives were kinda nothing, just excuses to draw something. I didn't really care for My Year of Dicks. It was just OK. The Boy, The Mole etc is the only one in the category that actually seemed made for kids and maybe that's why I found it so touching. There were things in it that, maybe coincidentally, felt like things I needed to hear. I didn't see the Ostrich film.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 30 January 2023 22:48 (one year ago) link

hahaha @ that wendell pierce tweet

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, 30 January 2023 23:26 (one year ago) link

jesus he just doubles, triples, and quadruples down on that dumb statement the further down the thread you go. I haven't even seen this film and I knew what it was about.

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Monday, 30 January 2023 23:29 (one year ago) link

Riseborough's a good actress but this film looks slight. I should watch it.

― POLIZISTEN VERSINKEN IM SCHLAMM (forksclovetofu), Saturday, January 28, 2023 12:25 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Please report back--I'm skeptical when a non-American actress gets raves for playing a gritty role with an American accent. (Do American actresses simply never get a chance at these roles, or do the critics not pay attention when they do?)

Infanta Terrible (, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 00:57 (one year ago) link

British/Irish actors get raves for playing Americans all the time. And they are really good at it. I will watch this film. The hype for it seems kind of manufactured to me though

Dan S, Tuesday, 31 January 2023 01:53 (one year ago) link

it does, yet, everyone I know who watched it loved it (this is three people) so maybe the hype is justified. dunno guess I'll watch it later this week.

I? not I! He! He! HIM! (akm), Tuesday, 31 January 2023 02:22 (one year ago) link

mescal’s scottish accent is actually half decent

LaMDA barry-stanners (||||||||), Saturday, 11 February 2023 20:52 (one year ago) link

Watched the Navalny doc in HBO today—worth watching for the middle section when they figure out who attempted his assassination and how they did it. Really a mind blowing scene.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Monday, 13 February 2023 03:59 (one year ago) link

Mike D'Angelo's started up his annual unveiling of the Skandies with the 20th place finishers:

Picture: Benediction (36/5)
Director: James Vaughan, Friends and Strangers (36/3)
Actress: Anna Cobb, We're All Going to the World's Fair (30/3)
Actor: RJ Cyler, Emergency (40/4)
S. Actor: Dave Bautista, Glass Onion (40/3)
S. Actress: Anne Hathaway, Armageddon Time (35/4)
Screenplay: Emmanuel Mouret, The Things We Say, the Things We Do (31/3)
Scene: [Arrgh!] (30/3)

Because a lot of voters lazily allotted 10 points across the board in Scene this year, there's actually a fucking six-way tie for #20, as that's how many films wound up with 30 points from three votes. Here they are, with a link to the scene in question (or part of it) if I could quickly find it on YouTube:

• Bonfire, Bones and All
• Eve's kitchen, Confess, Fletch
• Benoit Blanc vs. Gillian Flynn, Glass Onion
• "KIMI, play 'Sabotage,'" KIMI
• Lydia's new gig (final scene), TÁR
• "New Body Rhumba," White Noise

عباس کیارستمی (Eric H.), Monday, 13 February 2023 18:51 (one year ago) link

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