Thankful n' Thoughtfull: The Sly Stone Dedicated Chronological Listening Thread

28. Beau Brummels - They'll Make You Cry (Introducing the Beau Brummels, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdafwzPG6NI
"Just a Little"'s b-side sounds like the theme song to some z-grade cowboy tv show with its repeated harmonica refrain and woodblock accents. The ridiculously affected nasal vocal delivery is an odd touch, perhaps a Dylan homage/parody? Although the other elements in the song don't sound like Dylan at all, including the simple but precisely arranged guitar parts (including one that is pitched up, or perhaps some kind of harp?) The foreboding tone of the lyrics do seem a little Dylanesque ("some people are fools/others are clowns", "life is no game" etc). A curio.

29. Mojo Men - Off the Hook (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srwhFKFZZII
A slight but charming slice of garage rock, opens with a not entirely convincing guitar figure and then sliding into familiar white-teenagers-do-three-chord-R&B mid-temp territory. Sly doesn't take too heavy a hand from the producer's chair - this is basic stuff. There's plenty of bands like this circulating in the SF-scene by 1965; it's hard not to fantasize about what might have happened if Sly and Fogerty had crossed paths.

Shakey, I love this thread and am so glad you are back and sharing all of this.

30. Mojo Men - Mama's Little Baby (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOAtLwDIjFQ
"Shortnin' Bread" a la Nuggets. This song is so basic the devil's always in the details, and there are a bunch here thrown in here for good measure (off-key piano solo, handclap accents, inserts of lyrics from "the Jerk"). They don't elevate it above its clear throwaway status.

31. Sylvester Stewart - Buttermilk (Pts 1&2) (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRQDW6tIZ74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKzyfe4xxYI
Most appropriate descriptor for this instrumental dance number is probably "groovy". The arrangement is an interesting but not altogether unusual mix of disparate elements - jazzy organ lines, an R&B harmonica solo (Sly clearly really loves the harmonica, it's a constant in his arrangements), a bluesy bass and acoustic guitar breakdown. Hard to guess who's playing what but the chops are sharp and the pieces all propel what is essentially a very basic throwaway into some unexpected places. It wouldn't be out of place scoring a dance sequence in some shitty 60s beach movie. The "have a glass of buttermilk" refrain is pure R&B DJ patter, there were tons of songs like this up through the mid-70s.

2. The Vejitables - I Still Love You (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLsjE-c2Fqc
More proto-psych-rock from the Autumn Records stable, this time opening with a bit of faux-sitar elecrtric guitar, signalling we're firmly in jangle-pop territory. The rhythm section goes into double-time on the bridges, pushing against the longer melodic phrases of the male/female harmonies. Oddly it looks like this predated the Mamas & the Papas first single, the similar sound and approach are unmistakable. The "oh yeah" refrain at the end is particularly nice, with the counter-melody from the harmonica. Again nothing groundbreaking here but more evidence that Sly is more than comfortable operating with a different combination of sounds and instruments than one typically found in his R&B productions. The b-side ("Anything") does not appear to be available on Youtube.

wow, "Buttermilk" sounds like a direct swipe of the Stones' "2120 S. Michigan Ave." minus its guitar solo

The beginning of Buttermilk pt. 2 would sound great looped up, either slowed down for a rap beat or as the basis for a krautrock jam.

Oh yeah, just put it on .75 speed, that really should have been a '90s hip-hop sample.

I have an Autumn Records compilation somewhere on vinyl, I'll listen to it in conjunction with the thread before we're done this era.

I never realized Sly produced that Vejtables single! Their drummer, Jan Errico, is Greg Errico's cousin.

I kinda like the Bobby Freeman sides.

God bless Sly for trying his best with the Beau Brummels' tracks but I'm distracted by how dull the songs are.

Despite (more or less) covering what Brian Wilson called the greatest song ever written I'm not hearing much of any interest in the Mojo Men.

"Buttermilk" the first part is indeed groovy, the second part sounds like some guys messing about in the studio, I wonder who's playing that bass solo?

The Vejitables' track has nice vocals.

33. Beau Brummels - You Tell Me Why (The Beau Brummels Volume 2, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tXcDGIAe8U
Keeping up with the competition, the Beau Brummels seem to have taken a few tips from the Byrds this time out. "You Tell Me Why" is anchored by a pretty acoustic 12-string guitar part, walking the song through a fairly standard folk chord structure, punctuated by a harmonica lick. Valentino's delivery seems a bit David Crosby-ish as well, his tone is softer and less melismatic than on other cuts. The rhythm breaks down into staccato triplets for the bridge, augmented by four-part vocal harmonies. And again Sly goes with the hard stereo panning of elements into separate channels. Reached 38 on the Billboard chart in the states (number 8 in Canada for some reason). Not bad.

34. Beau Brummels - I Want You (The Beau Brummels Volume 2, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q9oqFB-7_0
The b-side to "You Tell Me Why" opens with distinctively plucked harmonics on a heavily reverbed 12-string and more "Be My Baby" drums/tambourine, hard panned across the mix. The three-part vocal harmonies are up-front and dry, completing a pretty minimalist arrangement (that only gets even more minimal in the middle when the vocals get whittled down to a solo). Its not particularly complex harmonically, melodically or rhythmically but it achieves an appropriately dreamy effect, like a proto-Stone Roses. Better than the a-side?

35. Chosen Few - I Think It's Time (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_P6LjB4EVo
Doesn't seem to be a lot of available details on the Chosen Few apart from their being from Stockton. The production on this single almost seems like a step back from the others Sly was cranking out; it's in mono for one thing and the sound is a bit grimier and more distorted, it sounds like it was recorded pretty much live. If the Brummels were aiming for the Beatles the Chosen Few seem to be shooting for the Stones. The circular bass riff that anchors the song works well against the merseybeat rhythm, and there's some nice interplay in the breaks. Also: more harmonica.

36. Chosen Few - Nobody But Me (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JwpHoZm77k
The b-side. Was expecting an inferior version of the Isley Brothers/Nuggets classic. Instead we get a not particularly complex but still solid little barnburner, built around that marching Motown rhythm. The male and female vocals work, the electric guitar licks are hot, the bass is fat, and of course there's that harmonica again.

37. Mojo Men - Dance With Me (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqySswHgSWg
For a song called "Dance With Me" the bizarre rhythm makes this seem like it would've been pretty damned difficult to dance to, the drummer can barely keep it together and it's one of those songs that deliberately obscures the downbeat. The organ solo in the middle seems tentative, like it doesn't know where to start or stop. To be fair this kind of rhythmic bait-and-switch tomfoolery is probably what appealed to Sly about the song in the first place. The vocal, at least, grows entertainingly more over-the-top as the song goes on, the ad-libs towards the end are pretty amusing. The b-side ("The Loneliest Boy in Town") does not appear to be available on Youtube.

38. Beau Brummels - Don't Talk to Strangers (The Beau Brummels Volume 2, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwiyK9HXAlA
While the Byrds only had a few singles out prior to this getting released, the similarities here are pretty striking. "I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better" has an identical 12-string guitar hook and had just come out two months earlier. This was Sly's last attempt at recapturing the Brummels' initial chart success. It didn't even crack the top 50 in the US. The delivery of "be aware of hidden dangers/and don't you dare go unto strangers" over the "Be My Baby" drumbreak (again!) is probably the best bit; otherwise it doesn't really gel, and the singers straining to hit those harmonies at the end is embarassing. The production itself is solid, but the songwriting and performance are lacking.

39. Beau Brummels - In Good Time (The Beau Brummels Volume 2, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTxdVCs_Pro
Well at least they switched things up for the b-side. Here they try their hand at a clumsily modified Bo Diddley beat, and the addition of a crackling fuzz guitar almost puts this in freakbeat territory. Valentino delivers another Dylan-esque vocal, which unfortunately is rather undermined by sloppy harmonies. Sly and the Brummels would both go on to better things shortly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTxdVCs_PRo

40. Bobby Freeman - The Duck (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sylv98uzFI
One last swing for the fences. Keeping with the aquatic themed dances that were his bread and butter, Sly and Bobby simply borrowed this song from Fred Sledge Smith and Earl Nelson. It isn't clear if this came out before or after Jackie Lee's version (which went to No. 4), but Bobby's didn't even chart. As a basic one-chord groove (okay there's three counting the turnarounds) this is actually pretty thumping, and Freeman is obviously in his sweet spot doing this rile-up-the-crowd schtick, even injecting some dynamics more suited to a live show when he brings things down a bit towards the end. Sly's arrangement and production are solid, capturing the energy and raucousness of a big R&B ensemble cranking away at full gear.

41. Bobby Freeman - Cross My Heart (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX8XhOoiAWU
The b-side to ""The Duck"" single. This one is pretty different from Bobby's hits, opening with a callback to Sly's occasional attempts at latin rhythms like the cha-cha. Lyrically there's an ironic statement of purpose about his staying power (not to mention a callback to "Little Old Heartbreaker"), but Bobby's time in the limelight was basically over after this. While the song builds nicely and is competently delivered, it lacks a dynamic hook or riff, unfortunately.

So happy to know about Sly Stone's early aquatic dance-based career.

42. Sylvester Stewart - Temptation Walk (Pts 1 & 2) (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of-BmZydkQk
Sly's last release under his own name for Autumn Records, this time a stop-start arrangement built around a bongo break, a droning organ, and even some distortion creeping into the electric guitar. The drums, interestingly, have no swing to them at all - they pound away in a very straight, driving 4/4 rhythm, with a walking bassline and the other instruments providing the color and movement. No lyrics per se beyond the shouted refrain, which (harbinger of things to come) is a call-and-response between male and female voices.

Definitely starting to sound very Family Stone!

43. Mojo Men - She's My Baby (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgLeOkSm56E
That ripping fuzz bass riff is clearly the highlight of the band's final Autumn Records single, and it kicks this little white R&B nugget into high gear when the gang vocals, harmonica and tambourine are firing away on the refrains. Otherwise things don't get too wild, this is compact, serviceable garage rock. Sly would keep this fuzz bass sound in his arsenal for the next several years. This song didn't even chart, the band's biggest success didn't arrive until the following year with a cover of a Steven Stills song ("Sit Down, I Think I Love You") on Atco.

44. Mojo Men - Fire in My Heart (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-fvVxCvnog
At first this b-side seems to be more in the vein of the Beau Brummels with that chiming guitar part, but the minor key chords, the droning farfisa and wordless backing vocal take this in a slightly stranger direction, more discordant and spooky, especially on the instrumental section in the middle where they're basically doing a modal, two-chord drone. A bit more interesting and unique than their other productions with Sly.

45. Sly Stone - Rock Dirge (Pts 1&2) (non-album single, 1965)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjX4Xt4rZXo
This is not actually the first release under the name "Sly Stone". It was issued in 1970 on some label called "Woodcock" as a cash-in on the band's post-Woodstock popularity, but actually recorded much earlier (circa 1965) prior to languishing in the vaults. The title is a total misnomer as the song is neither a dirge nor does it rock - instead it leads off with a surprisingly dusty and funky drumbreak, well ahead of the curve of the rhythms of the time. What follows is a fairly straightforward organ, drum and acoustic guitar workout, with lots of breakdowns and dropouts, making it sound like it was likely assembled from multiple rough takes in the studio.

interesting

phat360's avatar
phat360 Apr 16, 2008
This is an early and very good compilation of psychedelic soul from the eccentric Sly Stone.
I picked this record up in a charity shop the other day for £1 and judging by the album cover I believed that it was going to be a live album from a show in SanFrancisco. To my great surprise and relief it wasnt.
Some really good mind bending soul with the up tight Sly twist.
If you like your break beats head straight for Rock Dirge as this is one monster of a beat!
This beat is easy to loop and is a real pounder of a beat that hasnt really been sampled too heavily.
I think it may have been sampled by the hardcore rave breakbeat heros of mine Genaside II but i'll have to check.
A break beat for the ones who know.
Classic!

46. Great Society - Someone to Love (non-album single, 1966)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw7BSVBrpTg
When Autumn Records folded in 1966 (most of the recording contracts were sold to Warner Bros, the records and catalog going to Vault Records), they were struggling to outbid bigger labels for potentially successful signees like the Warlocks (aka the Grateful Dead), the Charlatans and the Great Society. But before all that went down, Sly was on-hand to produce the Great Society's initial single for Autumn's subsidiary North Beach. Darby Slick: "Sly started coming over to some rehearsals and started having ideas how we should change this and that. We flatly refused to anything he suggested because we knew where it was at. Getting in the studio was a real nightmare for him and not that much fun for us, because we wouldn' accept any of his ideas there either... I'm sure he thought of us as very unprofessional, unpolished, maybe not even real musicians. And we thought of him as this controlling guy who wanted to make everything be a certain way." Sly reportedly was pissed that it took them 53 takes and this is all they got. Can't blame him, the band sucked.

47. Great Society - Free Advice (non-album single, 1966)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DSX62KLAoU
More awful warbling from Grace Slick, a flatly delivered vocal from David Miner and a backing track that is simultaneously both too boneheaded and yet not boneheaded enough. It's hard not to think of the Velvets, who would have imbued this material with perhaps sloppier musicianship but also more menace and unpredictability. As it is it just grinds on mindlessly, never developing or building up to anything.

Yes, this is a terrible single, and supposedly Sly left the studio before it was "completed". Imagine how bad the previous takes must have been that these were regarded as releasable masters!

...even or especially by 1966 standards.

Huh, I had no idea Sly produced the original Someone to Love.

I listened to The Autumn Records Story, which contains eight of the songs discussed above, and can't really add anything to the excellent summaries already offered, except "Dance With Me" is even more rhythmically perverse than described!
The record also includes "Anything", the Vejtables b-side, which is an interesting haunted and moody minor-key but peppy tune, with a strange percussive instrument high in the mix. I'd actually call it better than any of the other selections on the record (doubtless due to rights issues, the only Beau Brummels songs on the compilation are two demo/outtakes).

"Anything" was (smartly) the Vejtables track included on Rhino's S.F. Nuggets box.

48. Billy Preston - Advice (The Wildest Organ in Town!, 1966)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFDVGmNb9zc
1966 turned out to be very much a transitional year for Sly - Autumn Records folded, he took his radio show from KSOL to the more straight-laced KDIA, and he put together a band called Sly and the Stoners (not to be confused with his brother Freddie's competing band, the Stone Souls). All of the future Family Stone members were in each others' orbits at this point, either playing with or competing against each other. In the meantime, he gets an arranger gig with fellow R&B child prodigy Billy Preston, who's already had a wildly successful career backing Mahalia Jackson, Nat Cole, Little Richard and Sam Cooke (oh, and he also knows the Beatles). Jack Douglas was in the producer's chair. Sly is credited as arranger for this entire album, but the tracks that most likely feature his actual instrumental contributions seem the most relevant here.

And this first track is especially interesting because it predates the version that would appear a year later on the Sly & Family Stone's debut album. Evidence of Sly's composing and arranging skills, the song is pretty much fully formed already - it's got the staccato riffs, the lyrics, and a soon-to-be-very familiar vocal refrain that he would return to again and again. For some reason there's also a harmonica-led "Louie Louie" breakdown in the middle. Throughout, Billy does what he does best, punctuating the tune with a flurry of embellishments, runs and fills on the Hammond.

49. Billy Preston - It's Got to Happen (The Wildest Organ in Town!, 1966)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_wmsmXoIbQ
Understandably indulging in a proverbial organ workout, bolstered by some percussion shenanigans between the bongos (panned hard left in the stereo field for some reason) and the drums. The song opens at a breakneck pace and never really lets up, leaping between some simple chords banged out on the piano and Billy's more melodic and dynamic organ fills. As a showcase for Billy's inventive phrasing and improvisational skills against a high-energy dance rhythm it works great, in many ways not that far off from Blue Note's contemporaneous stable of "rare groove" organists (Jimmy Smith, Lonnie Smith, Ruben Wilson, etc.)

Billy apparently returns in a few years to play on a later Sly album.

50. Billy Preston - Free Funk (The Wildest Organ in Town!, 1966)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3dyfC5aO0w
A different kind of "funk" - the blue, depressed kind. Billy is a showy player, and Sly wisely keeps the arrangements understated and simple so that nothing distracts from showcasing the organ. Billy's playing is (as usual) really wonderful, running through all kinds of figures and turnarounds but always with a keen ear for melody and expressiveness, accentuated here and there by the reverb cranking up. Sly essentially getting out of the way and just giving Billy the proper backdrop.

51. Billy Preston - Can't She Tell (non-album single, 1966)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjQ-zQWL_tI
Produced by David Axelrod. Possibly an outtake from "The Wildest Organ in Town" sessions (which had production credited to Steve Douglass) given that it has Sly's credit on it and was cut in '66, but the overall sound is pretty different, and it was issued as a non-album 7" single. Sly's touch is definitely evident in the bass and drum parts, can't tell if that's him singing harmony on the choruses or not. Odd to hear Billy playing piano instead of organ. While his playing drives the arrangement he doesn't indulge in any of his usual fireworks - it seems like this was constructed more towards the goal of getting a hit pop song, with the emphasis being on the vocal and the instrumental interplay. The driving Motown backbeat, clanging electric guitar, and thumping ascending bass riffs are all hallmarks of Sly's early signature sound.

52. Sly & the Family Stone - Underdog (A Whole New Thing, 1967)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPEIFMSAkcQ
The core group in place (minus Rose, who was around but would not officially be in the band until the next record), Sly's palette is now exceptionally broad - while he's unquestionably the leader the ensemble nature of the arrangements and performances have clearly pushed Sly into new territory, and this doesn't bear much resemblance to anything else he's cut so far. Drums and bass rumbling underneath, the opening cut on their first album leads off with the horn section doing a weird minor key interpolation of "Frere Jacques" before Sly calls out "hey, dig!" and the rhythm section locks into a James Brown-ish ""washing machine groove"" (as Fred Wesley used to call it), punctuated by a cappella gospel "yeah yeah"s. Sly's vocal dashes back and forth from a sung-spoken lead, brief snatches of harmonizing, and ad-libbed shouts. The drums dropping in and out give the song a constantly shifting feel, manic and propulsive during the verses, contrasted with the horns alternately jabbing out counter-melodies and then marking time in the choruses.

As with pretty much all of Sly's songs from here on out the lyrics are in the present tense - a wry mixture of pep talk, social comment, and hipster patter molded into a statement of purpose. The band's overall presentation is worth further consideration, because it was very deliberate - "Underdog", like many of the band's songs, is about *the band* and their lifestyle, presented as an aspirational ideal, a multi-ethnic, gender-balanced, self-aware unit that is in opposition to the current social fabric. This is pretty unusual for the time; Sly isn't (generally) writing narratives or poetic metaphors for the band to sing, he's writing self-mythologizing, declamatory expressions of their identity. While this was a time-honored approach for blues musicians and early r'n'r guys like Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley, by the mid-60s R&B and rock acts generally weren't doing this. James Brown would certainly get there shortly, but compared to the Motown and Stax acts or Sam Cooke or other predecessors, this is strikingly different.

53. Sly & the Family Stone - If This Room Could Talk (A Whole New Thing, 1967)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIuIR0DByLM
Again opening with a deceptively clean, catchy horn line that then abruptly shifts into a head turning rhythm, this time one that emphasizes the last upbeat of the phrase, rather than the downbeat. The sound is relatively spare and tight, but also exuberant, with Sly taking the lead over a simple two chord plagal cadence pattern, and Freddie, Cynthia and Larry's backing harmonies occasionally peaking through. At the bridge Sly's organ lays down droning chords as they switch to a more standard motown beat, Sly hollering and ad-libbing over the top. By the end Sly, with Errico's drums popping along underneath, introduces a vocal style he and the group would return to again and again - ridiculously rhythmic and percussive scat-singing. (An aside: never seen this suggested anywhere, but this seems like a clear antecedent to Michael Jackson's "bow-chicka-mmh-ahh" signature vocal interjections; Sly did it a lot, and certainly the Jackson 5 was taking notes on him and the band in general). The lyrics are lightweight lover-I-didn't-mean-to-do-you-wrong nonsense but it doesn't matter, the appeal here is in the bizarrely energetic Frankenstein arrangement; the embryonic ensemble is the star.

Sly turns 80 today!

"Underdog" has a much more bitter, incisive lyric dealing (I guess) with racism than you would expect if you only knew his '68 and '69 songs of togetherness and celebration, the harshness of 1971 was already latent.

if one child posts at the rate he appears to be inclined to, in three days there's gonna be a treat for anyone who was paying attention to or fondly regards popular music in 1991, but who may not be the biggest crate digger. Like me! I have a promo of the Whole New Thing record, sent to me alongside all the better known peak era Sly records, that were each reissued in —what was it? 2002? 2003? I didn't listen to it until 2020, and man, this whole record is super exciting, cuz precisely because of its obscurity, no hits at all, its absolutely fresh and much much better than the record that followed. It's pretty obvious that Dance to the Music is comprised of THAT song alongside a shit ton of filler, as they had to cut it really fast after "Dance…" hit and Clive Davis wanted more material. Anyone who cares about Sly but only knows those bangin' fuckin' hits or canonical hits needs to hit this thread…

These are two of the best songs on the album (even though "Underdog" is perhaps slightly too long), I'm saying that but I haven't actually listened to this album in a long time so I might change my mind on that.

I have a promo of the Whole New Thing record, sent to me alongside all the better known peak era Sly records, that were each reissued in —what was it? 2002? 2003?

The first CD reissue of A Whole New Thing was in 1994 or ‘95. I remember buying it and feeling a little apprehensive, as the only reviews I’d read were lukewarm. But I was pretty blown away, and it’s among my favorites of his…or anyone’s.

Sly turns 80 today!

Just noticed that. Somewhat miraculously still with us.

54. Sly & the Family Stone - Run Run Run (A Whole New Thing, 1967)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiLWrU-JX08
Larry Graham's impact on the band's overall sound, R&B/funk, and bass playing in general cannot be overstated, and you can hear it clearly in the opening bars here, with his fleet-fingered thumping propelling the song forward. A brief bass-and-melodica fanfare blossoms into some weird, frantic folk-rock/Motown hybrid that shifts gears so many times it's head-spinning. Byrds-ian electric guitar breaks, a chiming xylophone, droning organ, bass and drums maintaining a furious rhythm, before an abrupt left-turn to an arpeggiated horn part, followed by the addition of a worldess vocal and a simple bass drum pulse. Then it whips back to the verse, shouted vocals, more xylophone, more instrumental verses. The band overall is very self-aware about the audacity of what they're doing both on a musical and socio-political level, and the lyrics reflect a theme (initially broached on "Underdog") they would turn to again and again: us vs. them, the freaks vs. the squares, the hippie day-glo utopia vs. the button-down establishment. No doubt this is the kind of song that turned an initially small coterie of white hippies' heads as well black musos like Miles Davis.

55. Sly & the Family Stone - Turn Me Loose (A Whole New Thing, 1967)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpWL60Z5txs
Channeling some of the more manic strains of James Brown's R&B blowouts, this one comes charging out of the gate with horns, guitars, bass, gospel organ and drums galloping along in what at times could almost pass for a hyped up ska song. All the players get off crazy breaks, particularly Errico and Freddy. Vocals are a similarly hyped up call-and-response series of exhortations. And then it's all over in under 2 minutes. Seems designed to serve as a live set opener to rile up the crowd.