Donald Trump: Classic or Dud?

I understand the weariness and fear of hope, but dunking on him absolutely doesn't stick. it's a free message board, post what you want, own what you post, people are free to judge you on what you post - but none of this is remotely the work, you'd be doing more good with a photocopier and a can of billboard paste.

point taken, LL . I admit that my cynicism is such that I don’t think Trump will face any consequences for his assault of E Jean Carroll, and that perhaps it’s worth evaluating how Trump himself has fostered this sense of cynicism and misogyny in the general body politic. I’m not immune from it, obviously.

I understand the weariness and fear of hope, but dunking on him absolutely doesn't stick. it's a free message board, post what you want, own what you post, people are free to judge you on what you post - but none of this is remotely the work, you'd be doing more good with a photocopier and a can of billboard paste.

E. Jean Carroll is doing important work by sticking to her guns in the face of everything thrown at her by Team Trump. You want a profile in courage? That is courage.

Making fun of his tiny hands or gold toilets or stupid ties or whatever (while admittedly fun) is not as courageous as what Carroll is doing.

I can't say whether any of it will lead to consequences - orange guy has been notoriously immune to real consequences basically forever, which is its own problem, larger than Trump. Privileged dudes getting away with heinous shit is a tale as old as time. It preexists him and will outlive him.

I believe E Jean Carroll and have advocated on behalf of survivors of sexual assault.

― Goose Bigelow, Fowl Gigolo (the table is the table), Friday, April 28, 2023 6:49 AM bookmarkflaglink

That's good to hear.

Anything that amplifies the actual testimony of E. Jean Carroll is a win in my book.

This opinion piece Donald Trump May Have Begun Losing by Katherine Miller the New York Times mentions the importance of truth-telling, creating evidence, and bearing collective witness as the function the January 6 commission. Although it does not mention the E. Jean Carroll rape trial as one of those, it talks about how important memorializing detailed witness accounts on a wide, public scale can be important. History is written by the victors, but even the losers will try to come along later to erase and deny history, which Trump is working extra hard to do at all times.

No one is disputing that it was known Trump was a sexual predator in 2016. What wasn't known until 2019 that Trump raped this particular woman, E. Jean Carroll. The details of what happened to her so strikingly resemble his "grab em by the" comment that the quote almost sounds like a confession. It is also fairly rare (at least in my experience) that a civil defendant would not attend his own trial. So that is newsworthy as well, as is the fact that (as discussed elsewhere on ILX) Trump could face contempt charges if he continues tweeting from the sidelines. One can only imagine how much gold Trump's side probably tried to stuff E. Jean Carroll's mouth with to shut her up rather than go to trial. The fact that she either couldn't be bought or they didn't try is something as well.

Agreed, felicity.

It’s interesting how little tolerance the judge has in this case for his usual shit. So you don’t have to give the Guardian a click:

Before Carroll took the stand, however, the judge in the case, Lewis A Kaplan, rebuked Trump for an “entirely inappropriate” statement on his social media platform, Truth Social, shortly before proceedings began.

…

Lawyers for Carroll, whose suit includes claims Trump previously defamed her by publicly calling her case a “hoax”, “scam”, “lie” and “complete con job”, mentioned his new statement to Kaplan.

The judge told Trump’s lawyers: “What seems to be the case is that your client is basically endeavoring, certainly, to speak to his quote-unquote public, but, more troubling, the jury in this case about stuff that has no business being spoken about.”

He also called Trump’s post “a public statement that, on the face of it, seems entirely inappropriate”.

The Trump attorney Joe Tacopina noted that jurors are told not to follow any news or online commentary about the case. But he said he would ask Trump “to refrain from any further posts about this case”.

“I hope you’re more successful,” Kaplan said, adding that Trump “may or may not be tampering with a new source of potential liability”.

Kaplan has been a long time judge in SDNY with a reputation for taking no bullshit.

Oh nice. I didn't even notice the case was in federal court. Federal judges with lifetime appointments do not mess around.

This being a defamation case I draw parallels (in my mind anyway) between the conduct of the judge here and in Depp-Heard. The judge in the latter allowed Depp fans to attend court in numbers, heckling and harassing Heard outside, and disrupt proceedings. She made the trial public viewing despite the large amount of testimony that was about sexual assault, so the public could use clips shorn of context for memes and mockery. That judge was an absolute abhorrent piece of shit. In terms of supporting someone going to court on such a matter, that was incredibly disgusting & set the tone very early on. I’m glad Kaplan is taking no such shit with this one because cases about rape and assault are difficult for accusers to deal with.

Two words: State. Court.

One can only imagine how much gold Trump's side probably tried to stuff E. Jean Carroll's mouth with to shut her up rather than go to trial

?

I thought Trump's thing was almost never actually paying anyone ever for anything. My understanding was that the strategy with Carroll was threats and bluster, and bluster and threats.

Did Team Trump try to silence Carroll with actual money, a la Daniel's?

Sorry I am a bit behind on the list of hideous things done by this hideous person

One of the reasons I am so impressed by E Jean’s testimony is because of her courage in the face of her largely victim-blaming generation. Imagine being 79 years old and testifying that a powerful rich ex president assaulted you when you were in your 50s — for a woman of her generation it’s Herculean imo.

I also didn’t know about the judge — glad he has said something about social media/contempt bc if there’s one substance DJT runs on it’s the fuel of contempt (for court and women and POC and and and ) His blood is coursing with all sorts of contempt.

Did Team Trump try to silence Carroll with actual money, a la Daniel's?

Sorry I am a bit behind on the list of hideous things done by this hideous person

― Ice cubist (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 28 April 2023 15:22 (twenty-two minutes ago) link

We may never know but it seems likely to me. Although maybe offered in some plausible-deniability workaround type of way, which seemed to be his m.o.

Jill Harth discontinued her sexual assault claim against Trump at the time he structured an undisclosed settlement payment with Harth's boyfriend over a supposed business dealing (odd because he notoriously does not pay contractors). It was reported in the indictment that Trump had a "catch and kill" arrangement with the National Enquirer where he would pay for negative stories not to be published, and that money was offered to kill a story by at least one other woman besides Stormy Daniels (aka "Woman 2" and "Woman 1" in the indictment, respectively).

That's another problem for Trump. These proceedings get reduced to indictments and transcripts. Enablers go to jail or have to start cooperating. Evidence and testimony in any case can be used to cross-examine or support perjury of witnesses in other cases. And the wheels start coming off, even if it looks like no consequences so far.

This case may be different too because E. Jean Carroll's legal fees are funded by Reid Hoffman. So no chance she'll be forced by economic duress to drop the case.

Two words: State. Court.

― felicity, Friday, April 28, 2023 10:59 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

gyac, not being in the US you might not understand felicity's point (a good one) that there is a pretty drastic difference (especially wrt the quality of judges) between the US federal court system and state court systems, which can be amazingly provincial (I clerked in one, I should know, lol). Just wanted to explain that further.

Also, federal judges are more or less appointed for life, so they may have less shits to give.

*cough* Feinstein *cough*

Meanwhile in New Hampshire:

After QAnon supporter Micki Larson-Olson was pointed out to Trump as a “Jan. 6-er” by the crowd at a packed diner, Trump sought her out, calling her “terrific,” telling her to “hang in there” and giving her a hug, video shows.

Larson-Olson said in an NBC News interview the next day that Trump is the “real president” and that she “would like a front seat of Mike Pence being executed.”

“The punishment for treason is death, per the Constitution,” Larson-Olson said. “I believe every single person, every single person that stole a voice from our collective voice of ‘We the people, of the people, for the people, by the people,’ deserves death, and no less than that.”

good people on both sides, etc. etc.

xps you are really kind pbkr, i actually messaged her directly so as not to take up the thread with it :)

No problem, dual US system probably is wack to the outside world.

This case may be different too because E. Jean Carroll's legal fees are funded by Reid Hoffman. So no chance she'll be forced by economic duress to drop the case.

I'm a dummy and had to look up who Reid Hoffman is, but this is great.

There are ultimately better uses of money, but if I were filthy rich it would be tempting to spend my wealth down funding lawsuits against Trump.

better this kind of thing than what the other reid (reed hastings) does with his money, i.e. fund charter school ballot measures and candidates for school boards.

oh ron

DeSantis and his advisers loaded up his memoir with quotes about how he weaponized the state against Disney, as a selling point to GOP primary voters.

All this is now evidence against him. I went through Disney's lawsuit and pulled out key quotes here:https://t.co/vgMZ9FlHa7 pic.twitter.com/PZlIQVjL3q

— Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) May 2, 2023

all I can think of is that scene from The Wire, "are you taking notes on a criminal conspiracy?"

Why are Democrats so intimidated by President Trump’s masculinity?

— Brigitte Gabriel (@ACTBrigitte) May 2, 2023

I know this one! Is it tofu?

The jury's seen Trump suggest that four women who have appeared in court are unattractive:

* E. Jean Carroll
* Jessica Leeds
* Natasha Stoynoff
* Carroll's attorney Robbie Kaplan

(The jury, which has 6 men, 3 women, also saw him confuse Carroll with his ex-wife Marla Maples.) https://t.co/IdhNrDWa1N

— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) May 4, 2023

Heck of a defense

In the videotaped deposition, Trump grew agitated at time, crossing his arms over his chest.

He defended his comments on the Access Hollywood tape: https://t.co/sSpYKoZOUl pic.twitter.com/Vuci1tF0Kn

— erica orden (@eorden) May 4, 2023

"But I would only grab someone I deemed sexual assault worthy, and I'm afraid your client doesn't make the cut.."

Yeah, hell of a defense

The testimony of Jessica Leeds and Natasha Stonyoff is pretty damning as well.

Leeds testified that years after assaulting her Trump recognized her at an event and said, "I remember you, ... You’re that c*** from the airplane.”

Stonyoff testified that Trump pushed her into a room, shut the door, pushed her against the wall and started kissing her at Mar-a-Lago. Very similar to what he did to Carroll.

It's worth remembering that Trump is, on top of everything else, 6 feet 3 inches tall and heavy set.

Also, Trump has been ordered to pay the New York Times' legal fees for the case he lost about their reporting investigations into possible tax fraud.

"and you consider yourself to be a star?" is just ace cross-examining. he is bound by the terms of his self-image to affirm it immediately.

It is both funny and a provision of generous lengths of rope.

Well, I guess if you look over the last million years, that’s been largely true

I wish this would disqualify him among young-earthers but noooooo

but fits right in with Scientology, so...

Trump should seek Xenu in the molten crater of an erupting volcano.

Clears have been grabbing 'em for trillions of years, that's just how it goes

DO IT

The judge in the Carroll trial says he will allow Trump's lawyer until 5pm on Sunday to make a motion "on behalf of Mr. Trump to reopen his case for the purpose and the sole purpose of testifying as a witness in this case."

— erica orden (@eorden) May 4, 2023

in a civil case like this, can trump appeal if found guilty? can carroll appeal if he's found not guilty?

can trump appeal if found guilty? can carroll appeal if he's found not guilty?

I think the only thing Trump could appeal would be whether the size of the award was excessive. I don't think Carroll would have recourse to appeal if there was a finding of no damages.

Prosecutors investigating the former president’s handling of classified material have issued a wave of new subpoenas and obtained the confidential cooperation of a witness who worked at Mar-a-Lago.

...

The existence of an insider witness, whose identity has not been disclosed, could be a significant step in the investigation, which is being overseen by Jack Smith, the special counsel appointed by Attorney General Merrick B. Garland. The witness is said to have provided investigators with a picture of the storage room where the material had been held. Little else is known about what prosecutors might have learned from the witness or when the witness first began to provide information to the prosecutors.

But prosecutors appear to be trying to fill in some gaps in their knowledge about the movement of the boxes, created in part by their handling of another potentially key witness, Mr. Trump’s valet, Walt Nauta. Prosecutors believe Mr. Nauta has failed to provide them with a full and accurate account of his role in any movement of boxes containing the classified documents.

In the past few weeks, at least four more Mar-a-Lago employees have been subpoenaed, along with another person who had visibility into Mr. Trump’s thinking when he first returned material to the National Archives, according to people briefed on the matter. Two people said that nearly everyone who works at Mar-a-Lago has been subpoenaed, and that some who serve in fairly obscure jobs have been asked back by investigators.

sounds pretty serious

xxp Any lawyer that lets him testify in person should be immediately disbarred, but it's probably reached a point where if they don't let him 'exonerate' himself in person, they know they might not get paid

Any lawyer that lets him testify in person...

As one of his lawyers recently stated 'all I can do is try'.

On Wednesday the defense team said its only other witness, a technical expert, was too sick to testify.

That meant the jury of three women and six men has only heard testimony from Carroll’s witnesses and Trump’s legal team has been limited to trying to discredit it.

you get what you (don't) pay for

What a train wreck this man’s life is.

Kinda hard to appeal on inadequate counsel when you yourself hired them

kinda wonder what their 'technical expert' was going to add to the mix... maybe an expert on department store dressing rooms or somethihng

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/05/05/fulton-county-georgia-trump-investigation-electors-immunity/

At least eight of the 16 Georgia Republicans who convened in December 2020 to declare Donald Trump the winner of the presidential contest despite his loss in the state have accepted immunity deals from Atlanta-area prosecutors investigating alleged election interference, according to a lawyer for the electors.

Prosecutors with the office of Fulton County District Attorney Fani T. Willis (D) told the eight that they will not be charged with crimes if they testify truthfully in her sprawling investigation into efforts by Trump, his campaign and his allies to overturn Joe Biden’s victory in Georgia, according to a brief filed Friday in Fulton County Superior Court by defense attorney Kimberly Bourroughs Debrow.

...The news that some — but likely not all — of the electors will not be charged raises new questions about the scope of Willis’s examination of the meeting of electors, all of whom she previously identified as criminal targets in her investigation. The electors who accepted immunity did so without any promise that they would offer incriminating evidence in return, and they all have stated that they remain unified in their innocence and are not aware of any criminal activity among any of the electors, Debrow said.

“In telling the truth they continue to say they have done nothing wrong and they are not aware of anyone else doing anything wrong, much less criminal,” said an individual familiar with the investigation who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the case.

yes, the GA gop electors who knew their guy lost and tried to overthrow the election results anyway definitely did nothing wrong and are not aware of anyone doing anything wrong. "much less criminal", meaning, no one even made a mistake at the meeting. everything was perfect, the speaking was perfect. the decision to knowingly try to make trump the president even though he clearly lost, not a mistake. the dinner orders were perfect, the amount of appetizers were right on, and everyone remembered the name of everyone else's children and asked how they were doing

Robbie Kaplan shows the clip of Trump saying stars "historically" grab women, "unfortunately or fortunately

"Who would say 'fortunately' to describe" an act of "sexual assault?" [...]

"He thinks stars like him can get away with it." https://t.co/v3VeiRY0yH

— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) May 8, 2023

Dud.